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A good post David Johnson, but the following statement today is in some ways enough:

The evidence shows "conclusively" that Liverpool fans "neither caused nor contributed to the deaths".

I think the vile Arginald Valleywater and the vile mrmcfister have been exposed for what they are.

Now that the truth is finally out for even some members of this forum to see, perhaps the Mods might change the name of this thread to something less vile and and offensive, such as 'South Yorks Police conspired to blame the victims - official'.

Again I bring calming words from Switzerland to this forum...

As with most events there IS blame on both sides....mrmcfister was right and also were the comments negative to him...

BUT nothing will bring back the poor victims... RIP

LEARN, REMEMBER and move on...

And they should be the final words on this sad event.

Von Boy wrote:

> As with most events there IS blame on both sides....mrmcfister
> was right and also were the comments negative to him...


Of course there is. It's just not "politically correct" to attach any blame to any Liverpool fans, and so that element of it gets swept under the carpet so as not to upset the families.

The police fucked up and lied, the ground didn't have the proper safety certificate, the ground was badly designed etc. etc. We know that. And if heads have to roll as a result then so be it.

But when all's said and done, if there hadn't been so many fans without tickets causing a ruck at the back in the first place, the disaster would never have happened.

Plenty of collective blame to go round on all sides.

- Eric

"Again I bring calming words from Switzerland to this forum..."

No you don't, you bring misrepresentation and ignorance.

"mrmcfister was right"

No, he wasn't.

Read mrmcfister's initial post again. Now read the Cameron statement to the House of Commons and stop wasting our time. Here is an extract.

"This appalling death toll of so many loved ones lost was compounded by an attempt to blame the victims.

A narrative about hooliganism on that day was created which led many in the country to accept that it was somehow a grey area.

Today's report is black and white.

The Liverpool fans 'were not the cause of the disaster'.

The panel has quite simply found 'no evidence' in support of allegations of 'exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or violence among Liverpool fans' and 'no evidence that fans had conspired to arrive late at the stadium' and 'no evidence that they stole from the dead and dying'."

It is worth adding that it is immaterial whether ticket-less fans arrived or not, it was the job of the police to deal with it, whatever the circumstances, a job they lamentably and now possibly criminally failed to do.

To discover that it is possible as many as 41 of those who died MIGHT have had a chance to survive if the police had not prevented ambulances and medical personnel from gaining access to the pitch, should surely now raise the possibility of criminal sanction against former members of the force. And just because they have retired should be no defence.

"But when all's said and done, if there hadn't been so many fans without tickets causing a ruck at the back in the first place, the disaster would never have happened".

What evidence have you for the above statement? Please bring the evidence out now.

This is an extract from the report issued today.

Consistent with Lord Justice Taylor?s findings, the Panel found no evidence among
the vast number of disclosed documents and many hours of video material to
verify the serious allegations of exceptional levels of drunkenness, ticketlessness or
violence among Liverpool fans. There was no evidence that fans had conspired to
arrive late at the stadium and force entry and no evidence that they stole from the
dead and dying. Documents show that fans became frustrated by the inadequate
response to the unfolding tragedy. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in
rescuing and evacuating the injured and the dead.

There would appear to be cases for unlawful killing based on the number of people (41) who might have been saved after 3.15.

Secondly there was clearly an enormous coverup on the part of the police with regard to the falsifying of statements and the attempt to vilify and pin the blame on the fans. I would have thought that charges may be possible following on from those activities.

Flat_Eric wrote:

> if there hadn't been so many fans
> without tickets causing a ruck at the back in the first place,
> the disaster would never have happened


Are these "fans without tickets" the ones which have been conclusively proven to have never existed?

Or simply a fantasy on the part of Flat_Eric?

"It's just not "politically correct" to attach any blame to any Liverpool fans, and so that element of it gets swept under the carpet so as not to upset the families."

More crap from you. Like many people with your lack of knowledge of the forces that affect your life even when the evidence is put in front of you as it has been in the results published today, like a drowning man in desperation you struggle to grasp the "politically correct" tag in order to explain why you are talking crap.

Despite all the evidence placed in front of you, it is "one-sided" because everybody is being "politically correct". You are talking shite.

You were obviously in a deep sleep during the initial period after the disaster when the fans were vilified as the sole cause of the deaths. These views have been discounted and completely discredited today. But it took over 20 years!

Secondly, you clearly haven't got much of a grasp as to what happened after Heysel. where Liverpool fans were justifiably met with disgust re. their actions.