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Flat_Eric wrote:


>
>
> Either way ... still no longer relevant in the 21st century.
>
> Not unless you're expecting expect China or North Korea (or
> some other foreign power) to invade Colorado or Texas or North
> Dakota etc.
>
> "Red Dawn" perhaps, Robches?
>
> - Eric
>

It takes a brave man to decide when rights are no longer relevant. Is the right to self defence ever irrelevant? If modern armies were so powerful Afghanistan would have been done and dusted long ago. But the US Constitution is not written in stone, it can be amended, so anyone who wants to argue against the right to keep and bear arms is free to try and get the Constitution changed, it's their right to try, but if the people don't want it it won't happen.

Robches wrote:

> It takes a brave man to decide when rights are no longer
> relevant. Is the right to self defence ever irrelevant?


Nice deft movement of the goalposts there!

Higher up you said that the right to bear arms is there because the founding fathers wanted citizens to be able to protect the newly-established USA against foreign powers.

Now you're saying it's there for "self-defence".

So which is it?

Or do you seriously believe that a foreign invasion of the USA is conceivable today?

- Eric

[quote]That wasn't what I said and is in fact a stupid and offensive comment.[/quote]

Offensive my arse. We've debated gun ownership before, after the college shootings a few years ago. Remember? You're argument then was that the only way to defend against nutters entering college campuses was to let students carry weapons on campus.

Today, you start your reply with: "It would seem the only person armed at the cinema was, sadly, the killer." i.e, it was sad that no one else in the cinema (mums & dads taking kids to watch batman) was armed. Just another way of saying "If only some of those mums & dads exercised their state's right to bear arms, this might have turned out differently."

My remark was based on previous discussions and direct quotes from you. Sorry if you find your own logic so offensive, but that's a problem you have to take up with yourself.

Unless you've changed your mind over the last year or so and now agree that America should work with the states to make it harder to own and carry guns.

And they say irony is dead.

And it seems that europe has had another suicide bomber in Bulgaria yesterday to give to the world, so we all have our nutters.
If people want to kill and maim others then they will find a way whether we like it or not.

Looking at the statistics over the last 10 years, more people die in America from guns, per month than who die in European terrorist atrocities per year. And Europe has around a 50% larger population.

It's not really about equating terrorist atrocities but that more guns equals more people dying from guns. It really is that simple..........apart from Switzerland, of course. But they're not normal.

[quote]If modern armies were so powerful Afghanistan would have been done and dusted long ago.[/quote]

The reason Afghanistan isn't 'done and dusted' is because the war has never been fought on militaristic terms. People just don't tolerate Hiroshimas and Dresdens these days. We could turn Afghanistan into a dust bowl within hours if we had the inclination.

Silly point.

'Why an event like this in the USA becomes headline news over here only seems to demonstrate that our news netwroks are rather in thrall to the USA. I doubt a similar event in Mexico would make the evening news'.


Really Robches? Think this event will feature everywhere and would if it was in any country with a free press.

This scumbag has devastated many families whose loved ones are now lying motionless on mortuary trays.Kids lost their dads etc etc.Time to blame more and understand less.

Just seen his pic looks like a young Martin Shaw!

What kind of land is America where a common citizen can buy enough ammo to equip half a bloody regiment and nobody thinks anything odd is happening? 6000 rounds in the right hands could take out a small town never mind a cinema. No doubt the NRA will be blocking any protests with their rootin tootin boys in the Capital - yeehah!