'Empire' with Jeremy Paxman...

[Trumpton]

Don't expect any sort of impartiality from the BBC when covering this subject.

In essence the BBC are propagandists for Arabs/Muslims - and even though the events covered in this programme occurred over a 130 years ago, the BBC will slant the facts in favour of their Arab/Muslim masters.

[frankthring]

I think, Trumpton, that the problem has less to do with a BBC pro-Moslem
bias than the fact that for intellectuals trying to re-write history in a
populist way the British Empire is easy easy cannon fodder. Ah, the down-
trodden masses, ah the rulers coming from the same schools where Mr
Paxman got caned as a boy (or was he one of the 5th form bullies himself).
Its a mixture of psychological guilt and an easy target. It began with
Lytton Strachey`s arty intellectual attack in "Eminent Victorians" 100 years
ago and Paxman is a direct descendent of this line of poor scholarship. It
saddens me, when the Empire for all its faults, did much good too, that in
modern multi-cultural PC Britain we have to be ashamed of our history and
our heritage !!
To try to judge the Victorians and their beliefs from the elitist standpoint of
the 21st century is nonsense and a stupid re-write of history.

[max_tranmere]

If one of the reasons Britain is more affluent than a lot of the rest of the world - and has a better education and health system than a lot of the world, and has a system where no one will starve and will get their rent paid and be given money to live if they're not working - is because we looted quite a lot of the world, and massacred people in their own countries, then everyone here who benefits from all the above has no right to criticise any of it as they are taking the fruits of it all with open arms. Would be like someone enjoying the nice spoils of a bank robbery and at the same time complaining that bank robbery is wrong (whilst sat in their nice car, parked outside their nice house, whilst wearing their nice watch and nice suit - all bought with the stolen money.) I am referring to people like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown here, media pundit, writer, etc, who criticises a lot of what Britain did yet chooses to live here and have the nicer life on the legacy of it all.

[davey]

Maybe the British should have turned up with spears then and allowed themselves to get wiped out eh?Or maybe the Mahdi and his army should have picked a better time and place to fight?

Its war not a little dispute in the girls guide

Why are you ashamed of what the British army did all those years ago?You werent involved.I dont suffer from post colonial guilt like some self hating liberal apologist.In the days that the British were going all over the world killing the natives, looting and pillaging my ancestors were back in England being hung for stealing a loaf of bread or being transported to Australia or being worked to death in the poorhouse for the heineous crime of being working class and poor.They were much different times then and much more brutal

And dont forget thst programme is made by the BBC the most anti British ,politically correct organization that ever existed

[davey]

You think Britain is rich because it looted the world during its time when it had an empire?

You want to watch another couple of history programmes mate.Try one from 1945.Britain was absolutely bankrupted by the second world war and was surviving on American loans.Straight after the war Britain began dismantling its empire so there were no countries left to plunder of milk their wealth.
If you want to talk about history you really need to know what you are talking about.If you dont there is a wealth of information on the internet

[max_tranmere]

Interesting points there. I'm not ashamed as such, just disgusted at some of the things that were done. Many of us have a mixed background anyway, I have a bit of Irish in my past, but I don't regard myself as Irish at all, I view myself as totally English just like the rest of my family does. The English of course did bad things to the Irish too. I am of the view that certain things seemed ok to do at the time, and invading and colonising other countries was just what people did in those days.

I would go as far as to say that the nation's of Europe that never built Empires probably didn't because they didn't have the mite to, probably not because they saw it as wrong. Invading others to convert them was a done and acceptable thing, massacres are something else and I still think that what happened in the Sudan (just like what happened in Tasmania) was bad and wrong. I don't feel personally attached to it though, I would have the same feeling talking about something bad France did in its days of Empire, for example.

[max_tranmere]

I'm aware Britain was bankrupted by World War 2, rationing went on for ages and it took until the late-50's for the country to fully get back on its feet. What I was saying there though was to address those people who say "but you've stolen it all from the non-whites" when refering to what Britain has. No one on this thread has said that, but some in wider society do.

[David Johnson]

"You think Britain is rich because it looted the world during its time when it had an empire? You want to watch another couple of history programmes mate."


Max is right.

One of the reasons that Britain became amongst the richest countries in the world was due to its having the greatest empire the world has ever known. It is a mistake to believe that imperialism in its widest sense disappeared with the British flag being taken down from government buildings. Yes, World War II almost bankrupted the UK, but an economic imperialism has replaced in some ways the red on the world map. Do you really think Britain invaded Iraq and bombed the Libyan infrastructure to bits purely out of the goodness of its heart? THe first people into Iraq and Libya after the end of war, are the UK businessmen, contracts in hand, looking for some tit for tat.

If you want to see one of the greatest economic imperialists in action, keep your eye on CHina, as it puts huge amounts of money into the infrastructure of African countries in return for hoovering up the rights to African mineral exploration.

[max_tranmere]

Interesting points there.

We seem to be as bad as the Americans now - our soldiers go in, then our businessmen follow.

[Robches]

Britain's wealth derived far more from the industrial revolution than imperialism. Far more wealth was made from the labour of coal miners and cotton workers and ship builders than was made from the colonies. Some historians argue that the cost of administering and defending colonies was such that the empire actually cost rather more than it was worth.