What is the point of Parliament?

[David Johnson]

"Britain seems to stand on the sidelines, wanting some but not all aspects of the EEC (obviously the bits
that suit it), refuses to take the Euro, refuses to join passport free Schengen,
yet whines all and I do mean all the time about the EEC like a spoiled brat".

This is the general view of the Tory party. The Tory party has been split totally on the issue of being in the EU for decades. So the way that successive Tory leaders, Thatcher, Major and Cameron have tried to control the Eurosceptics within their own party is by moaning on and on about the EU to appease their own MPs and try to shut them up.

Given at least 80% of the media supports the Tories, papers such as the Daily Express churn out endlessly stories about "the EU wont let me go for a walk on a Sunday" or "have a shag on a Saturday before 12 noon!" even though only about 7% of law that we have comes from the European parliament.

Personally I am in favour of staying in the EU. The thought of having a Tory government that is largely certifiable with the likes of Oliver Letwin and "steady as we go as the economy runs aground" Osborne running the UK without any civilising effect from the EU is a terrible, terrible thought.

CHeers
D

[jimslip]

So Frank, in the UK you have the choice of the Tories with their madcap selection of Euro haters, Euro lovers, toffs, duck pond fools, etc, tempered a little by the Lib Dems, or waiting in the wings a bunch of clowns who are so stage managed in order they appear "united" that none of them ever dare to break ranks to complain about anything let alone the EU. What is New Labour's great legacy? The complete collapse of belief in honest government, the near bankruptcy of the country and the slavish agreement of everything and anything that comes out of Brussels.

What a choice! !laugh!

PS I believe that if it hadn't been for the EU many of our basic rights would have been destroyed. Both parties cannot be trusted to protect our basic rights. I also think that the EU is a huge money spinner for all who get involved and know how to milk it and for this reason it should be reformed. It is also for this reason that it WONT ever be reformed! Lol

[David Johnson]

"in order they appear "united" that none of them ever dare to break ranks to complain about anything let alone the EU."

19 Labour MPs voted for the motion re. a referendum. Only 1 Lib Dem voted for the motion.

"What is New Labour's great legacy? The complete collapse of belief in honest government,"

I always thought democracy was fantastic until New Labour came to power.

" the near bankruptcy of the country"

Quite right. It was all New Labour's fault. I know that the USA, Iceland, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal can't wait to get their hands on that Gordon Brown's neck.

"and the slavish agreement of everything and anything that comes out of Brussels."

See point 1

Have a nice evening
D

[max_tranmere]

Lot's of interesting comments. I've always found it odd how Thatcher said in the 1990s that John Major, as Prime Minister, had sold us out over Europe, completely betrayed her, and that 'no no no' had become 'yes yes yes' to Europe - when it was HER who agreed for us to join the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) in 1990. It was not the only time she put her career ahead of what was good for the country. Having lost one Chancellor that year (Lawson) she couldn't do anything other than go along with what her new Chancellor (Major) was demanding, if she wanted to stay in office. So she agreed for us to go into the ERM. This from Wikipedia:

STARTS
Pound sterling's forced withdrawal from the ERMThe United Kingdom entered the ERM in October 1990, but was forced to exit the programme within two years after the pound sterling came under major pressure from currency speculators, including George Soros. The ensuing crash of 16 September 1992 was subsequently dubbed "Black Wednesday". There has been some revision of attitude towards this event given the UK's strong economic performance after 1992, with some commentators dubbing it "White Wednesday".[1] Some commentators, following Norman Tebbit, took to referring to ERM as an "Eternal Recession Mechanism",[2] after the UK fell into recession during the early 1990s. The UK spent over ?6bn trying to keep the currency within the narrow limits with reports at the time widely noting that Soros's individual profit of ?1bn equated to over 12 pounds sterling for each man, woman and child in Britain[1][2][3] and dubbing Soros as "the man who broke the Bank of England".
The Tory government suffered badly as a result of Black Wednesday. The change of prime minister to John Major following the resignation of Margaret Thatcher in November 1990 had seen the Tories overhaul the Labour Party in the opinion polls, having trailed them by a double-digit margin in most polls during 1990, and eventually manage to win the general election in April 1992. However, within a few short months of Black Wednesday, opinion polls showed that the Tory lead had disappeared and Labour had a double-digit lead over the Tories in the opinion polls once more. Despite the strong economic recovery over the next few years, Tory support barely recovered and their 18-year tenure in government was ended in May 1997 by a Labour landslide, followed by 13 years on the opposition benches.
ENDS

I do wonder if we will eventually end up with a United States of Europe, and I also wonder if we would be MUCH further in had it not been for Rupert Murdoch not wanting us to go in further. We would probably have been in the Euro had it not been for Murdoch saying he would only back Blair in 1997 if Blair didn't take us in.

One last point. Those who've said that Tony Blair's government made people lose faith in politicians, I would disagree. The John Major government from 1992-1997 was one of the most corrupt, uncaring, and out-for-themselves administrations this country has ever had. And I'm saying this as a former Tory voter. Tony Blair's lot were much cleaner. They were incompetent in many areas but they were not bent like the last Tory lot were.