ATTN: Vidshop

[Rich]

Many thanks, I will ask our UK lawyers to check this with the parites you mention. The other question, is do you the consumers prefer uk despatch?

[Pasta]

Rich wrote:
>
> Many thanks, I will ask our UK lawyers to check this with the
> parites you mention. The other question, is do you the
> consumers prefer uk despatch?

Definitely, it takes the whole "will they, won't they" question right out of the picture, with regard to Customs. But then this makes it harder and more of a clandestine activity for the supplier.

OTOH, if it means we get the full, original package, original tapes/DVDs etc without hassles, then shipping from outside the UK is a good thing - trouble is that neither the supplier or the customer is in full control of what happens. You are at the mercy of Customs who are infamous for being a law unto themselves.

I note that Private's own mail-order operation does ship to the UK, so in theory they will send here, but at the customer's risk.

[Matt]

Don't understand the problem really. Lets face facts - the porn you get from outside the UK isn't (if you're anything like me, and lets hope to God you aint!!) 18 cert or R18 cert - none of it has been screened or even sent to the BBFC - it's hardcore stuff. Owning such stuff is not illegal. Shipping it in past customs is. That said, I have never ordered anything that hasn't been sent within the UK. How they manage to get the stuff past customs to their UK supplier is beyond me. I don't know that many tricks of the trade.

As someone else said, I would prefer UK dispatch, cos I couldn't give a flying toss about original covers etc - it's not the sort of stuff I put on display anyway! They would be nice, sure, but not at the expense of guaranteed delivery.

[woodgnome]

getting porn through customs is not illegal if it conforms with current bbfc r18 guidelines.

r18 stuff IS hardcore.

simple as that!

[Matt]

Not quite that simple though, is it? How many videos that you order from Vidshop, Your Choice etc have been approved for R18 by the BBFC? I'll tell you: none of them.

[woodgnome]

it is that simple!

the content merely has to conform with bbfc guidelines for r18 certification. it doesn't have to go before the board for any sort of approval. the evaluation of any tape passing through customs is made by customs officers. if in their judgement it complies with current bbfc parameters, then they are obliged to let it through - at least in theory.

if you think this is nuts, i can understand, because it is nuts!! in essence you can mail uncertificated, r18 compliant porn to any address in the united kingdom, as long as it's point of origin is outside of the uk.

on the other hand, you are liable to up to ?20,000 (twenty thousand!!) in fines, if you are found posting porn that IS r18 certificated and which has been posted from within the uk.

alice in wonderland wasn't pure fiction it seems!! it's hard to see how this state of affairs can be sustained and people who know a heck of a lot more about these matters than me seem to think that it breaches the recently implemented 'human rights act'.

but until someone challenges it in the courts...

[Pasta]

Regarding the points made by Matt,
I agree that guaranteed delivery is probably the most important issue (or at least one of), but many of the companies who supply in the UK are not supplying originals, they get one tape into the country and then duplicate it like you would do at home. This is what I find unsatisfactory, not necessarily the covers, but the fact that you are often paying full price for a glorified home taping.
This also means that the original producer doesn't see any money out of these sales.

On the R18 thing, there have been many genuine hardcore movies passed at R18 including tapes from all the major US and Euro labels eg Private Evil Angel etc. If when you say real hardcore you mean German style HC with fisting and pissing or serious SM content is not allowed, it falls foul of the BBFC guidleines. But other than that some very strong movies are passed R18 (some with cuts, some without) - who could say Dirt Anal Kelly in Rome 2 was not a TRULY hardcore movie?

As Woodgnome says, the real problem now that things are improving so much is the double standards on the supply of R18 by mail order vs imported, uncertificated porn.

[Matt]

Well, I stand corrected! I dind't know that it had to simply fall within the standards allowed to R18 without going before the board for approval.

With regard to the whole 'posting in the UK etc' I odn't get something and hopefully you can answer this, but all the tapes Your Choice etc post out are dispacthed within the UK. According to what you just mentioned, that makes it illegal. However, if they were to post their goods from outside the UK this owuld be legal. So howcome they don't post from outside the uk? Simply for cost, or what? I don't get it.

I didn't mean German stuff when I meant Hardcore, I wasn't referring to fisting or heavy SM stuff particularly, just your bog standard US stuff. As far as I'm aware, even R18 material is pretty limited on what it can show. Certainly I don't think some of the movies I have that are freely availble in the states would get R18 approval, and thats not because they are INSANELY hardcore, it's just because they show excessive penetration, cumshots etc etc - you know the deal.

[alec]

Cumshots, including facials, are OK in R18. I have several examples.

[woodgnome]

here is what is now permissible straight from the horses mouth, or at least it's website.


BBFC Classification ?R18? Guidelines.

The following content may be permitted:-

aroused genitalia;

masturbation;

oral-genital contact including kissing, licking and sucking;

penetration by finger, penis, tongue, vibrator or dildo;

non-harmful fetish material;

group sexual activity;

ejaculation and semen;

These guidelines make no distinction between heterosexual and homosexual activity.

(actually the law makes a distinction for them, in that it is still illegal for more than to men 2 engage in sex together. it's obscene, apparently!! i forget the details but it's another little nugget of nuttiness to add to the madness!)

The following content is NOT acceptable:-
any material which is in breach of the criminal law;

material likely to encourage an interest in abusive sexual activity (eg paedophilia, incest) which may include depictions involving adults role-playing as non-adults;

the portrayal of any sexual activity, whether real or simulated, which involves lack of consent;

the infliction of pain or physical harm, real or (in a sexual context) simulated. Some allowance may be made for mild consensual activity;

any sexual threats or humiliation which do not form part of a clearly consenting role-playing game;

the use of any form of physical restraint which prevents participants from withdrawing consent, for example, ball gags;

penetration by any object likely to cause actual harm or associated with violence;

activity which is degrading or dehumanising (examples include the portrayal of bestiality, necrophilia, defecation, urolagnia);

To be supplied only in licensed sex shops to adults of not less than 18 years.


i would guesstimate that these criteria permit 90/95% or more of all adult material released to pass uncut.

as to why the likes of 'your choice' continue to emphasise uk depatch, perhaps it eliminates the potential vagaries of how hmc&e might interpret the guidelines, or perhaps old habits die hard.

i know of at least one company that despatches the same videos from both inside and outside the uk and charges more for those posted inside!!