egafd.com

You've been so cocksure about Clegg's bank balance and his motives for entering a coalition with the Tories but when it comes to your own leader's reasons for backing voting reform you can't offer any insight at all?

Cop out!

Sam,

Some people in Labour support it. Some don't. I don't. Either way as Cleggie said "it's a miserable little compromise"

Get over it.

By the way, since you bring the subject of Cleggie up, what's Cleggie's view on AV this week? It's changed so much I'm not sure what he thinks.

I did try to ask him, but he doesn't return my calls.

I don't know why. After all, Cleggie has done really well in the past year. You must be very proud.

PS I notice you haven't answered my question on the Creep thread. Too tough?

Cheers
D

[quote]Some people in Labour support it. Some don't.[/quote]

Talk about stating the obvious. I asked why you seem to know more about Clegg's motivations than Milliband's.

[quote]Get over it.[/quote]

Over what?

[quote]By the way, since you bring the subject of Cleggie up,[/quote]

The subject was more about why you seem to know more about a leader of a party you don't support compared to the leader of a party you do support (or seem to).

[quote]PS I notice you haven't answered my question on the Creep thread. Too tough?[/quote]

I have now. I'm not at your beck and call you know! It's not like you always answer my questions, is it? Why is it a bad idea to give more influence to minority parties? As I've said before, we encourage things like the National Black Police Association, even though it is strictly discriminatory to whites, because we recognise that minorities in all fields have to shout twice as loud to be heard. That little extra influence helps balance out different views. Given that I'm all for smaller parties having a bigger influence in politics and can only see it as a good thing. Why are you opposed to this?

Sam I don't like to interrupt your row with David but it does appear you don't know what your own campaign are saying.

As muddled as it will help minority parties but in the same breath will defeat other minority parties.

With regards as to why Ed supports AV lots of reasons but the main is the opinion that it will destroy the Tories "knock them into a permanent third" as some sections of the Yes campaign are stupidity trying to sell as a reason for the miserable little compromise.

"You've been so cocksure about Clegg's bank balance and his motives for entering a coalition with the Tories but when it comes to your own leader's reasons for backing voting reform you can't offer any insight at all?

Cop out!"

Sigh!!!! SInce you appear to have a temporary blind spot on the use of google, here you go

http://www.newstatesman.com/2011/03/vot ... our-change

If you do a google on reasons against AV you will find a list of reasons why people like myself are not in favour of it.

Great eh, the interweb!

Cheers
D

--

David and Sam, you two should get a room!

I personally think there will be a low turnout for this referendum in May. So we will only be getting the views of what a small number of people think about this, and that will be regarded (and counted) as what 'the nation' thinks.

I think we should look at the Australian model - compulsory voting. This will mean what the nation really thinks is taken on board, not just some of the people. But then it is the fault of those who don't bother to vote that their views aren't counted under our present system.

I still think it is wrong that parties win when they got less than half, sometimes just over one-third, of the vote though (and that is people who did cast a vote).

David Johnson wrote:

> I don't see why people who have voted for the loony parties
> e.g. BNP, Lib Dems who end up coming at the bottom of the poll
> should get a second chance to influence the vote.
>
> They have already cocked up their vote. Why give them even
> more influence?

That's not the point. AV encourages people to vote for what they really believe in, as opposed to vote for what's the lesser horrible of the two most likely options, without a fear that their vote is merely discarded.

So it counteracts those "wasted-vote" mind games, affecting the first votes as well as adding 2nd/3rd choices.

This gives smaller parties (and I'm not just talking about the LibDems, as they'll get a bashing next time around) a much better chance to get into the system.

In Germany (admittedly under proportional representation), if there were elections now that reflected the current polls then the next German chancellor would be from the Green party (source: Der Spiegel, this week). The Greens have slowly extended their political influence under the political system in Germany, and that's not really something the old Westminster system allows for. For a new political force to realistically enter the system here one of the old parties would have to commit political suicide.

[quote]Sigh!!!! SInce you appear to have a temporary blind spot on the use of google, here you go

http://www.newstatesman.com/2011/03/vot ... our-change

If you do a google on reasons against AV you will find a list of reasons why people like myself are not in favour of it.

Great eh, the interweb![/quote]

WTF are you on? I asked why you to offer some insight (mainly why you seem to know more about Nick Clegg's motives than Ed Milliband's.

Who's the obtuse one again?

Oh, and why are you against smaller minority parties having more influence in politics?

Your correct AV encourages the minority to vote for what they believe in.

Trouble is the Yes to AV campaign proclaim it will help some but won't help others.

It either helps or it doesn't.

I believe it does help in that some can vote for a minority but then allows them to also have a say on who they would also like when their minority vote is kicked into touch.

That will only encourage minority voting but if you don't give a toss for a minority it means they have more votes or preferences as the Yes campaign prefer to call them than you.

That's wrong and is the complete opposite of the "fairness" the Yes campaign also proclaim to want.