Lib Dem Con Surveillance State?

[David Johnson]

Agreed Bob. Prying and the use of a secret police force is the hallmark of a totalitarian, authoritarian state.

As Jimslip knows these states come from a variety of political persuasions e.g. Pinochet, Franco and the East German regime he references.

Why Jimslip continually focuses purely on "Socialists" for this prying is something best left for him to explain.

CHeers
D

[jimslip]

The basic difference between my views and yours are that I am a cynic and believe ALL politicians are fucking crooked bastards! You both have a naive belief that somehow those on the left actually give a fuck........no they don't! Left, right and middle, all they care about is clinging to power at any cost.

However if I were to have to choose the most crooked, corrupt, greedy and cruel bastard of all, it would have to be Tony Blair.

[Lizard]

Presumably because he is right. Under new Labour (A socialist party), in fact a "progressive socialist party" if we are to believe both the Millibands and Alan Johnson, they alone attempted to introduced more surviellance of the citizen than any other Government over the last 13yrs.
Read this excellent piece from the Guardian.

And here

Oh, and here

I know that Milliband jnr stood on a platform for Progressive socialism, as did Alan Johnson, he is on record many times saying he is a socialist, and a progressive one as well.

Ed Milliband is the Leader of the opposition ie: The Labour party.
Alan Johnson is Waaaaaaay out of his depth as shadow chancellor.

Try and keep up.

[David Johnson]

Dearest Lizard,

What a gullible reptile you appear to be!

The point to get is that politicians don't always tell the truth about what they stand for! Sorry to disillusion you. Nick Clegg tells you he is all about fairness. Oh no, he's not. Alan Johnson tells you he is a socialist. Oh no, he's not. I tell you I am the King of Siam. Oh no, I'm not. You get the idea, I trust?

Here is a definition of Socialism for you .

""Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources".

Then you quote

"I know that Milliband jnr stood on a platform for Progressive socialism, as did Alan Johnson, he is on record many times saying he is a socialist, and a progressive one as well."

If the Labour party is truly Socialist than I'm Cheryl Cole. To lump East Germany with the Labour party, as Jimslip does and which you appear to support is daft. You are quite right that the Labour party's plans to introduce the storage and access of emails etc etc. was reprehensible and I have mentioned that on a number of times. I have been equally dismissive of the terror legislation which led to photographers getting endlessly hassled in the city of London in particular.

It is unfortunate, however, that this government appears to be setting off down a similar path despite stating the opposite in their election manifestos and coalition document.

As for "do keep up". Well, dear oh dear. A bit of self analysis is needed, perhaps?

Cheers
D

No reptiles were hurt in this post.

[David Johnson]

"The basic difference between my views and yours are that I am a cynic and believe ALL politicians are fucking crooked bastards! You both have a naive belief that somehow those on the left actually give a fuck........no they don't! Left, right and middle, all they care about is clinging to power at any cost."

Thank you very much. I have been so misled over the last few decades. And so naive. THanks for pulling the scales from my eyes.

But, hang on a moment, I didnt notice much cynicism going on here?

http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i ... ply_236704

Cheers
D

[jimslip]

It is IMPOSSIBLE to discuss anything with you, you are a ZEALOT and an OBSESSIVE. Your answer to anyone who doesn't agree with your slavish devotion to your New Labour puppet masters is, "They must be a Tory".

No different to a Fundamentalist Muslim who says, "If you disagree with me then you must be an infidel and I must kill you!" or a Jew, "I am Chosen and you are not!" and so and so forth.

You really are the re-incarnation of that Private Eye character, "Dave Spart", Head of the, "Union of 6th Form Boilermakers and Steelworkers"

I so wish I could locate the old cartoon scripts, because they were hilarious.

The worst thing of all, is that you have absolutely no sense of humour.

You should be pleased with yourself, because you have actually, finally, driven me off contributing to any topic like this on the o/t forum, congratulations Comrade!

Cue: Smart arse, smug reply..............But I don't give a FCUK

[andy at handiwork]

Jim says
'...you have actually, finally, driven me off contributing to any topic like this on the o/t forum...'

I bet he hasn't, Jim.

[David Johnson]

"It is IMPOSSIBLE to discuss anything with you, you are a ZEALOT and an OBSESSIVE. Your answer to anyone who doesn't agree with your slavish devotion to your New Labour puppet masters is, "They must be a Tory". No different to a Fundamentalist Muslim who says, "If you disagree with me then you must be an infidel and I must kill you!" or a Jew, "I am Chosen and you are not!" and so and so forth. You really are the re-incarnation of that Private Eye character, "Dave Spart", Head of the, "Union of 6th Form Boilermakers and Steelworkers" I so wish I could locate the old cartoon scripts, because they were hilarious. The worst thing of all, is that you have absolutely no sense of humour. You should be pleased with yourself, because you have actually, finally, driven me off contributing to any topic like this on the o/t forum, congratulations Comrade!"

Err, does that mean you disagree with me, Jimbo?

A rather over the top response, if you don't mind me saying, but no doubt you will in spades! Do calm down, you will give yourself a heart attack.

Having been called naive in comparison to your own "cynicism" I merely pointed out that in one of your posts about the marvellous work being done by the Lib Dem Con government with regard to the surveillance state " I didnt notice much cynicism going on here?".

If that makes me an impossible, obsessive, fundamentalist Muslim-like, trade union-loving, humourless bloke enslaved by my New Labour puppet masters (that I have often criticised by the way) than that is just a cross I will have to bear I guess for having a different opinion to you.

Cheers
D

PS Are you not used to people disagreeing with you? Disagreeing with you does seem to provoke a rather extreme response. Not an answer to my question of course, just a rather extreme response.

[justincyder]

~Apparently a ?2bn. plan to allow the police and security services to track the email, text, internet and mobile phone details of everyone in Britain is to be revived, the Home Office has confirmed.~

D

This isn't a new political idea or technology. It was already in place with the last government. Currently the tracking is already and has been in practice and available for several years.

The idea though that security services could realtime monitor EVERYONE at the same time is currently fanatasy in that whilst tracking can allow the alert of key words/phrases to be picked up it does not allow every person as an idividual to be monitored at the same time. Current tech can't manage this.

What can be managed is that every ISP stores EVERYTHING you do on the interenet, every word you type every site you visit for at least 6 months and that is what the security services have access too. Same with mobiles.

Also emails leave a trace even if deleted and can be easily retrieved by someone in the know etc.

hope this helps

[David Johnson]

Hi
I think the link that I included in my message entitled Andy pretty much explains what you state re. the role of the ISPs and the warrant to access info etc. etc.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/oct/2 ... um=twitter

Cheers
D