I had to do some mental contortions, as an atheist, to allow the
essentially religious concept of evil.
Dawkins managed a neat explanation in 'Well, that Just About Wraps it
Up for God'... sorry..... 'the God Delusion' *.
*Should be compulsory reading for all 'Intelligent Design' students' [img]http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/smileys/rant.gif[/img]
Hitler vs Stalin
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."
-
Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
Well, without religion there can be no evil, only different degrees of unacceptability! (though I prefer to use 'evil', even being the Darwinian I am)
I read Dawkins' 'The God Delusion' last summer. A good read, and thinking of getting Christopher Hitchens' 'God is Not Great - How Religion Poisons Everything'.
Side note: Dawkins is doing a 2-part documentary called 'Enemies of Reason' on Ch4. You can get it on 4OD on your PC (free) if you missed the first part. Second part is next week. Pretty funny watching psychics and astrologers looking uncomfortable !laugh!
I read Dawkins' 'The God Delusion' last summer. A good read, and thinking of getting Christopher Hitchens' 'God is Not Great - How Religion Poisons Everything'.
Side note: Dawkins is doing a 2-part documentary called 'Enemies of Reason' on Ch4. You can get it on 4OD on your PC (free) if you missed the first part. Second part is next week. Pretty funny watching psychics and astrologers looking uncomfortable !laugh!
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
Would the term moral bankruptcy be preferable?
Leaving religion aside, there's still good and evil. Some well-intentioned actions can result in evil consequences, but taking someone's life, not out of jealousy or anger or greed but just because you can, is beyond any sort of moral pale.
Leaving religion aside, there's still good and evil. Some well-intentioned actions can result in evil consequences, but taking someone's life, not out of jealousy or anger or greed but just because you can, is beyond any sort of moral pale.
Pervert
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
Caractacus wrote:
> taking someone's life, not out of jealousy or anger or greed
> but just because you can, is beyond any sort of moral pale.
Ah, well, Camus would beg to differ; he of course argues that it's only
because we CAN commit the acte gratuit, as Meursault did, that we
demonstrate that we have free will and are therefore human.....
> taking someone's life, not out of jealousy or anger or greed
> but just because you can, is beyond any sort of moral pale.
Ah, well, Camus would beg to differ; he of course argues that it's only
because we CAN commit the acte gratuit, as Meursault did, that we
demonstrate that we have free will and are therefore human.....
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
Sam Slater wrote:
> Pretty funny watching psychics and astrologers looking
> uncomfortable !l
I was more disturbed by those physicists and astronomers who should
know better looking 'religiously shifty'....
> Pretty funny watching psychics and astrologers looking
> uncomfortable !l
I was more disturbed by those physicists and astronomers who should
know better looking 'religiously shifty'....
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
Don't think I'll take any morality lessons from a failed goalkeeper 
Pervert
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
The Worlds Biggest Collector Of Ben Dover DVD`s
Koppite Till I Die
Remember - You`ll Never Walk Alone
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
My wifes family (both sides) were very, very rich before Stalin came to power and it makes them wince now every single time they have to drive past the enormous mansion block in the centre of St Petersburg that they used to own until one day in the late 1920's Stalins cronnies turned up and said "right fuck off you lot, we own it now". When peristroika happened in the early 1990's they did try and claim it back but surprise, surprise all records of ownership had mysteriously vanished.
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
People add modern values to historical times when evaluating things. For example, the method of acquiring other countries through land (or as was with Hitler through air or sea) was until recently the recurrent feature of world history.
The current world in which we are lucky enough to inhabit affords us the luxury of relative world peace in which we can be fairly reassured most countries other than the middle east are safe within their boundaries. This is thanks to modern technology of course mostly. However, my point is that at the time in which WW2 and its initial developments was based upon and recovering from this type of conflict. Genghis Kahn did it in the 13th Century. Hitler attempted it in the 20th to devastating effects. However our modern values place a biassed brutality on what essentially has happened a 1000 times before.
On top of all this, its widely overlooked that anti-semitism was widespread in the 1930s worst of all being the Polish themselves. It's easy to sholulder Hitler personal vendettas but don't ignore the fact that MANY Germans hated the Jews for their supposed betrayal in WW1, ever wondered why so many Nazi's were quite so fervently vile towards Jews? Its not just megalomania.
Also the blood is on our hands as much as anyones, when the Jews were given orders to leave germany and the aquired countries. NOONE would accept them and effectively we signed their death warrant. Do your research if you don't agree but I'm a big WW2 history fan and the evidence is out there.
Ultimately my fascination is to get past the 'yeh but Hitler painted and love dogs' crap and really work out what was going on....was he REALLY that bad? In my opinion, ...mentally and physically ill from a life of severe abuse combined with terrible physiological state made him unstable and sociopathic...however as other posters have said the nazi dream was more understandable tha the communists. Stalin? Killed his own people in the millions, that to me is genuine 'evil' . Hitler?....terrible but comprehensible and in my opinion, the most influencial person in history. THanks to WW2 we live in an age of advanced technology we would have never had......make what you will of my rant, just sorry its so long
Phew!
The current world in which we are lucky enough to inhabit affords us the luxury of relative world peace in which we can be fairly reassured most countries other than the middle east are safe within their boundaries. This is thanks to modern technology of course mostly. However, my point is that at the time in which WW2 and its initial developments was based upon and recovering from this type of conflict. Genghis Kahn did it in the 13th Century. Hitler attempted it in the 20th to devastating effects. However our modern values place a biassed brutality on what essentially has happened a 1000 times before.
On top of all this, its widely overlooked that anti-semitism was widespread in the 1930s worst of all being the Polish themselves. It's easy to sholulder Hitler personal vendettas but don't ignore the fact that MANY Germans hated the Jews for their supposed betrayal in WW1, ever wondered why so many Nazi's were quite so fervently vile towards Jews? Its not just megalomania.
Also the blood is on our hands as much as anyones, when the Jews were given orders to leave germany and the aquired countries. NOONE would accept them and effectively we signed their death warrant. Do your research if you don't agree but I'm a big WW2 history fan and the evidence is out there.
Ultimately my fascination is to get past the 'yeh but Hitler painted and love dogs' crap and really work out what was going on....was he REALLY that bad? In my opinion, ...mentally and physically ill from a life of severe abuse combined with terrible physiological state made him unstable and sociopathic...however as other posters have said the nazi dream was more understandable tha the communists. Stalin? Killed his own people in the millions, that to me is genuine 'evil' . Hitler?....terrible but comprehensible and in my opinion, the most influencial person in history. THanks to WW2 we live in an age of advanced technology we would have never had......make what you will of my rant, just sorry its so long
Phew!
mmm Alex Kramer
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
..and he was French, of course.
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."
Re: Hitler vs Stalin
No, it's a good point.
I think it was Isherwood who rather courageously pointed out [and having
lived in Berlin pre-war of course] that H's manifesto was originally by no
means manifestly evil; and he was shouted down for it in Britain.
I think it was Isherwood who rather courageously pointed out [and having
lived in Berlin pre-war of course] that H's manifesto was originally by no
means manifestly evil; and he was shouted down for it in Britain.
"a harmless drudge, that busies himself in tracing the original, and detailing the
signification...."
signification...."