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Under Thatcher what little remained of community was wiped away by the greed mentality you espouse so much, Occifer. The Chavs are just the bastard children of Loadsamoney and his ilk from the 80s.

There's also an arrogance in these islands---we don't bother to learn English, because everyone should know English. The Chavish behave badly (and did long before Burbery was the de rigeur fashion item) abroad because "we're on fuckin' oliday, ain't we." It's probably a hangover to our imperial past when we could just march into anywhere and do whatever we wanted.

The majority of people are still good, decent people. But those folk don't inspire hysterical headlines and hand-wringing features about the decline and fall of civilisation. The faults in society lie in us, in what we were brought up to believe, unquestioningly. And if we continue to go along, not questioning what is happening around us, then things will get worse, and they deserve to.

Can't speak for any of you guys, but I am thoroughly ashamed that a bunch of politicians can lie to me so often and get away with it.

And no, Dibble, I don't read the Guardian.

... Fast , following the U.S , but there's is on a leger scale . As for car plants they been fucked the best part of 30year , nothing made here is british anymore , sorry that bloke with the "hellcat" i think it's called planning on making 4 a month ? . You can't make rubbish and expect people to buy it . The 3 French car manufacturers you speak of are all very clichey , looking after themselves , but only 1 is any good . JJ .

Boring I know but I'll give my usual answer.

If you don't like change it, if you can't and still don't like it leave.

Sorry I am on one tonight and sick of chav this, chav that.

Speaking from my own experience morons or pricks do not have to be put up with, they can be dealt with (& more importantly in my opinion should be).

It aint easy, takes effort & time (which in my view it shouldn't) but can be done.

"what little remained of community was wiped away by the greed mentality you espouse so much, Occifer."

"Greed mentality"? Sure, I like to see folks busying themselves to improve their lot and be able to afford the little luxuries (OK, big luxuries) that make it all worthwhile. But greed? Greed to me is when you have umpteen squillions worth of spondoolies and you keep striving for more - I mean, how many Lambos, Bentleys, Sunseekers and Villas etc, do ya' need? One of each would do me fine.


"There's also an arrogance in these islands"

I?d say it was more of a boorishness; a boorishness encouraged by the tabloids and those twattish lads mags, like ?Nuts?. I think that as a nation we kinda realise that nowadays we?re not as cultured and sophisticated as the rest of the Europeans and we feel a little inferior, a little stupid. So, to cover our embarrassment we pretend we don?t care. We slap each other on the back and go ?Wheyhey!? We then have a chortle or three and, in the manner of the Neanderthal, say monumentally naff things like Phworr! ?She?s fit!? Or, ?She?s Dirty!? Then we do a little more back slapping and chortling. But hey, why don?t we say - ?She?s beautiful. She?s an exceedingly sensual, sexual, woman?? Is it because we are embarrassed? Is it because we are out of our depth? Or is it because that after a decade of watching lairy soaps, Big Brother, drinking, swearing, and reading ultra vacuous celeb mags, that British women just don?t seem to fit into the beautiful or sensual category any more?

Of course we see all this being played out right here, in the world of porn. The European porn meisters have a tendency to celebrate a woman?s beauty and femininity, taking great care to ensure she looks her best. Dressing her in beautiful clothes and lingerie ? possibly in a Chateau or Villa setting. In Britain we blithely go round to some skankey, denim-wearing, chav bird?s flat and say ?Wheyhey, get yer keks off luv!? If anyone questions this we plead that we?re not bothered about those poofy Europeans films, cause we like ?real birds? (council estate birds). ?Wheyhey! Brit birds are best!? (Chortle, chortle) And furthermore, later on, we're going to hide in the bushes behind Tescos and see some ?real birds? being shagged by lads called Gazza and Darren in their Vauxhall Astras. Who needs poncy Villas, Chateaus and fancy clobber, hey? Not us, ?cause we?re Brits. Away the lads! (Chortle, chortle).

Yes, it?s a sorry state of affairs, Carac. But we don?t need to wring our hands, we need to point fingers, we need to slag the relevant people off, we need to take action. Don?t waste time fretting over lying politicians ? that?s just part of their job. They have to appear to address everyone?s concerns at the same time ? even if those concerns conflict. It?s all a load of cack. Never mind about believing and ?questioning? (i.e., hand wringing) there?s no time for that. I reckon people need to be trained to be rational and objective, to reach their own conclusions based on the facts they can garner cross referenced with their own observations and experiences. Don?t take on board any wanky ?ism? or any other rigid set of beliefs that my have been complied by some deluded bourgeois tosser in the early 20th century. And never take on broad a set of beliefs to fit in with a peer group or to appear ?cool?. Free your mind. Rational, well-adjusted, people don?t need anyone else?s ?beliefs?. They can make their own observations and deductions.

The problems we are talking about here are tractable. But people need to shake off their apathy, focus, and be prepared to put some other folks noses out of joint.


Officer Dibble

So whats the name of the political party you're going to set up then Dibble?
Its all very well moaning and whinging and talking the big talk. When are you actually going to do something?
Btw I see you blame the tabloids now....is that as well as the Guardian?

Mart

There is a growing underclass and they are dragging the rest with them. Look at those fag smoking,bleached hair,cheap push chair,designer track suit gals walking down your street...priceless...oh and here come their fellas...hoody,skinny,blinged up,benefit cheque carrying,looking for something to steal,I'll just drop my coke can on the pavement for some other fucker to pick up,and 'what about my rights' etc.....