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Well if the Millwall supporters were just taking in the splendour of the Danube and marvelling at the architecture then they have my sympathies but I suspect they went there looking forward to a "Row" and it sounds like they got one.

What pisses me off is that a city becomes a war zone for the sake of some bloody sport that the vast majority of people in Budapest couldn't give a toss about. Who picks up the tab for the Police and the health service who put these halfwits back together again after they've had their fun?

Why is it always football? If it's rugby, tennis, darts, fencing, scrabble, F1, ludo or bloody syncronised swimming taking place you don't get pitched battles of shaven-headed, tattooed fuckwits with beerguts brawling in the streets. Actually I'll be more specific, why is it always ENGLISH football?

interesting to see that uefa have charged Ferencvaros but not Millwall, and Ferencvaros have written to Millwall to apologise. This might suggest who the aggressors were.

On a side issue about other countries football problems the Dutch FA have just passed a law to allow a ref to abandon a game is crowd abuse becomes too hateful following recent problems with Ajax getting terrible anti-semitic chants against them.

don't think i'd ever want to go and watch a game abroad, England or club

Trust me on this, its most certainly not allways english football. You mention milan before, a place where one of its teams supporters threw a motorbike (yes a motorbike) onto opposition supporters from the stand above. Just last week roma fans managed to get a game abandoned and have been forced to play games behind close doors, and thats just italy. Dont get me wrong here, i know some england fans and english clubs supporters are headcases, but i guaruntee are 100 percent nothing like youll see in all the so called beautifull cities across europe, including Budapest.

UEFA have charged Ferencvaros with racial abuse of the players and the throwing of missiles inside the ground.

UEFA are powerless to discipline clubs where trouble happens outiside the ground; hence when Galatassary fans murdered two Leeds fans a few years ago Galatassary weren't banned from European competition.

Getting back to Milwall I can't help thinking this is a classic case of the biter bit. Milwall's thugs have been putting the boot in for decades and now they're squealing like piggies when they get a taste of their own medicine.

A quick read of the posts on the Millwall fanzine message board would suggest that there were plenty of thugs there for the ruck, and not to take in the sights of Hungary.

Got to agree here as it's not always the english fans but only ever seems to get press when the english fans are actually in trouble.

As I said in a previous post, there is a massive problem in Italy with the Ultras and has been for ages now but the authourities there don't do fuck all about it.

Take the Germans at France 98. They twatted a bloke with an iron bar and killed him. It got press but nothing like what would have happened if it was England. We probably would have got turfed out of the comp.

Yes there is still a hooligan element in the game but it aint as bad as it was and as I said before most of the fans travelling for away club fictures in Europe and England matches abroad are so strictly vetted that the fan that goes is often now of the corporate varierty. But they like anyone else will react.

If you were being pelted with coins, bottles and what ever for 60 mins or so and the police stood off, watched and done fuck all you'd hit breaking point. Everybody would at some point.

As I said there is still a thuggish element in the game but most clubs have done a massive amount to prevent this and don't be quick to condemn our own.

Being a football hooligan is not just an English disease. It's happens all around Europe. In fact some countries may well have surpassed us now.

yes I agree uefa have no powers to a certain extent outside grounds but the point I was trying to make (obviously not very well) was that it wasn't the same old case of 'English thugs'

This Hungarian team had already had problems with hooligans in it's domestic league, and this has carried on to european games (not to suggest Millwall fans may have had their own part to play)

it does seem the hooligan element has transfered from England to Eastern Europe and Italy/Holland but we still suffer from the old 80's label

English clubs has done more than most to try and combat the nutters that spoil our national game, it would be good if some other countries made the same efforts. When was the last time a black player in this country suffered sustained racial abuse.

We pissed ourselves laughing at work, super hard Millwall yobs complaining about harsh treatment, what a chuffing shame!

Years ago several of my friends, on a stag weekend, not to watch football, were jumped near the Thames by a group of about 20 so called Millwall fans. 3 ended up in hospital and the groom went down the aisle on crutches so hard fuckin cheese as far as I am concerned.

magoo wrote:

> up to date and stop such nonesense ............it took America
> a long time to cast off there racist attitudes and South africa
> and Australia still have a bit to go.

a female friend of mine - born in the seychelles but raised in london - went on a tour of oz a few years back and was astonished at the amount of overt racism that she encountered.

it took her a while to deduce that her 'look' was a possible factor in as much as she could be mistaken, especially by those for whom the colour of a person's skin looms larger than the person the skin contains, for being at least partly aboriginal in origin (she's also v. attractive, fwiw).

it should also be said that she had plenty of positive experiences during her travels down under but the negative ones certainly threw her for a bit of loop: growing up in a very cosmopolitan part of north london meant that her race had been pretty much a non-issue.