"I imagine that it would also be in their commercial interests to disassociate themselves from the ALF and Class War - although the idea that they are providing banking services for these organisations is farcical."
Who suggested that they did? I certainly didn't. What I meant was that by telling the BNP to fuck off and take their business elsewhere Barclays are setting a great example to make it hard for extremists to operate. I would just like to see similar treatment dished out to the scum far left as well as the scum far right..NOT just be banks.
Free speech - but no overdraft
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diplodocus
- Posts: 1319
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Free speech - but no overdraft
who mentioned bank? I was referring to the point that stronger action should be taken against certain groups who carry out unsavory acts under the guise of legitimate political aims
we are Leeds.... , and we can still beat the mighty Chester
Re: Free speech - but no overdraft
Well disected. In all honesty I should really have drafted my comments a little better before posting them. I have been Spooked.
Can you disect the following comment for me too:
1.'Although an unprovoked attack I should have been weary of my surroundings. But why should I be on edge the whole time in my home city now that it's multi national and cultural?'
I would just like your opinion. Remembering that I was almost murdered and how I personally should feel about it.
_________________________________
Not sure about this:
2. 'but I can't quite grasp why you think that highlighting a vicious beating carried out by a BNP member is damaging to the BNP's freedom of speech, or why you wouldn't be very keen for the perpetrator of this attack to face justice' -
I didn't highlight this which stems from poor paragraphing by myself. 'I have no personal problem with them' "Them" being the North Africans that attacked me not the BNP.
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3. Really? - so such groups are forming political parties, claim to represent mainstream opinion, getting council seats and nearly getting seats in the European elections?
Didn't say this either. Although 5 see below.
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4. "What a wonderful world we live in." = Sarcasm
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5. If senior Labour party members (or members of any other political party)were filmed secretly speaking about their involvement in violent illegal acts, or indicating their support for violent illegal acts, then I can't see why the BBC should refuse to show those conversations.
Think abou the political parties within the Northern Ireland and the BBC and discuss.
__________________________________
Have a good day and thanks for provoking thought.
K
Can you disect the following comment for me too:
1.'Although an unprovoked attack I should have been weary of my surroundings. But why should I be on edge the whole time in my home city now that it's multi national and cultural?'
I would just like your opinion. Remembering that I was almost murdered and how I personally should feel about it.
_________________________________
Not sure about this:
2. 'but I can't quite grasp why you think that highlighting a vicious beating carried out by a BNP member is damaging to the BNP's freedom of speech, or why you wouldn't be very keen for the perpetrator of this attack to face justice' -
I didn't highlight this which stems from poor paragraphing by myself. 'I have no personal problem with them' "Them" being the North Africans that attacked me not the BNP.
__________________________________
3. Really? - so such groups are forming political parties, claim to represent mainstream opinion, getting council seats and nearly getting seats in the European elections?
Didn't say this either. Although 5 see below.
_________________________________
4. "What a wonderful world we live in." = Sarcasm
_________________________________
5. If senior Labour party members (or members of any other political party)were filmed secretly speaking about their involvement in violent illegal acts, or indicating their support for violent illegal acts, then I can't see why the BBC should refuse to show those conversations.
Think abou the political parties within the Northern Ireland and the BBC and discuss.
__________________________________
Have a good day and thanks for provoking thought.
K
Re: Free speech - but no overdraft
"1.'Although an unprovoked attack I should have been weary of my surroundings. But why should I be on edge the whole time in my home city now that it's multi national and cultural?'
I would just like your opinion. Remembering that I was almost murdered and how I personally should feel about it."
Its impossible for me to "dictate" how you should feel about it. But, equally, its difficult for you to look at the incident dispassionately and objectively - I certainly wouldn't in your position.
I suppose that the points are - its not necessarily the case that without immigration in the 2nd part of the 20th century our cities would be any more or less violent than they are now. Are you on edge because of immigration or are you on edge because of general urban malaise, general "Clockwork Orange" style alienation of youth leading to casual acts of violence etc.
Is immigration a cause of violence or is just an easy banner of differentiation for people to latch on to? There's plenty of violence in society that has nothing to do with racism or immigration - football hooligans, weekend city centre yob culture, domestic violence, political thuggery of all types - which suggests to me that violence in society has not been created by immigration.
"I didn't highlight this which stems from poor paragraphing by myself. 'I have no personal problem with them' "Them" being the North Africans that attacked me not the BNP."
This is highly commendable and I doubt that i could be as magnaminous. I think that I would have an enormous problem with the prepetrators - but I would hope that this didn't spill over into having a problem with North Africans in general or immigrants in general. Similarly, I would hope that any Asian etc who gets beaten up by a gang of skinheads wouldn't have a problem with white people in general. I couldn't criticise a victim for holding such a viewpoint after suffering an attack - but it wouldn't be right for anyone else to base a viewpoint on violence and immigration entirely on one other person's experience. The ideal would be to consider violence in general, violent acts committed by immigrants, violent acts committed on immigrants etc etc to come to a, hopefully, reasonable and broad-based conclusion.
"If senior Labour party members (or members of any other political party)were filmed secretly speaking about their involvement in violent illegal acts, or indicating their support for violent illegal acts, then I can't see why the BBC should refuse to show those conversations.
Think abou the political parties within the Northern Ireland and the BBC and discuss."
Well its far more difficult and dangerous to infiltrate the IRA. The BNP showed themselves, effectively, to be a bunch of dimwitted morons in the BBC programme. The IRA are on a different level altogether.
It would take quite a brave man to try and go undercover and fool the BNP - it would take a very, very brave man to do the same with the IRA, and it would be far more difficult to fool them.
Would it be right to do such an expose of the IRA now? - possibly not given the fragility of the peace process. It is very difficult to accept the fact that terrorist murderers obtained early release - but N. Ireland appears to be a much nicer place to live now then when the troubles were at their peak. Would such a programme be justifiable if it damaged the peace process? - that would be a very long debate.
But in the past - a programme proving links between Sinn Fein and the IRA -showing that Sinn Fein politicians revelled in the idea of terrorist murder -yes, such a programme should have been made - or at least an undercover operation undertaken to see what sort of views could be unearthed. But its easy for me to say that sitting behind a computer screen.
So I accept that the the BNP were a relatively soft, stupid target that were easy to unmask - but that doesn't mean the BBC were wrong to expose them, or showed "anti-white bias" in doing so. Getting involved with paramilitary forces that are also now sophisticated mafia-style crime syndicates in an attempt to highlight the links between the criminals and N Irish politicians - great scoop but I wouldn't do it.
I would just like your opinion. Remembering that I was almost murdered and how I personally should feel about it."
Its impossible for me to "dictate" how you should feel about it. But, equally, its difficult for you to look at the incident dispassionately and objectively - I certainly wouldn't in your position.
I suppose that the points are - its not necessarily the case that without immigration in the 2nd part of the 20th century our cities would be any more or less violent than they are now. Are you on edge because of immigration or are you on edge because of general urban malaise, general "Clockwork Orange" style alienation of youth leading to casual acts of violence etc.
Is immigration a cause of violence or is just an easy banner of differentiation for people to latch on to? There's plenty of violence in society that has nothing to do with racism or immigration - football hooligans, weekend city centre yob culture, domestic violence, political thuggery of all types - which suggests to me that violence in society has not been created by immigration.
"I didn't highlight this which stems from poor paragraphing by myself. 'I have no personal problem with them' "Them" being the North Africans that attacked me not the BNP."
This is highly commendable and I doubt that i could be as magnaminous. I think that I would have an enormous problem with the prepetrators - but I would hope that this didn't spill over into having a problem with North Africans in general or immigrants in general. Similarly, I would hope that any Asian etc who gets beaten up by a gang of skinheads wouldn't have a problem with white people in general. I couldn't criticise a victim for holding such a viewpoint after suffering an attack - but it wouldn't be right for anyone else to base a viewpoint on violence and immigration entirely on one other person's experience. The ideal would be to consider violence in general, violent acts committed by immigrants, violent acts committed on immigrants etc etc to come to a, hopefully, reasonable and broad-based conclusion.
"If senior Labour party members (or members of any other political party)were filmed secretly speaking about their involvement in violent illegal acts, or indicating their support for violent illegal acts, then I can't see why the BBC should refuse to show those conversations.
Think abou the political parties within the Northern Ireland and the BBC and discuss."
Well its far more difficult and dangerous to infiltrate the IRA. The BNP showed themselves, effectively, to be a bunch of dimwitted morons in the BBC programme. The IRA are on a different level altogether.
It would take quite a brave man to try and go undercover and fool the BNP - it would take a very, very brave man to do the same with the IRA, and it would be far more difficult to fool them.
Would it be right to do such an expose of the IRA now? - possibly not given the fragility of the peace process. It is very difficult to accept the fact that terrorist murderers obtained early release - but N. Ireland appears to be a much nicer place to live now then when the troubles were at their peak. Would such a programme be justifiable if it damaged the peace process? - that would be a very long debate.
But in the past - a programme proving links between Sinn Fein and the IRA -showing that Sinn Fein politicians revelled in the idea of terrorist murder -yes, such a programme should have been made - or at least an undercover operation undertaken to see what sort of views could be unearthed. But its easy for me to say that sitting behind a computer screen.
So I accept that the the BNP were a relatively soft, stupid target that were easy to unmask - but that doesn't mean the BBC were wrong to expose them, or showed "anti-white bias" in doing so. Getting involved with paramilitary forces that are also now sophisticated mafia-style crime syndicates in an attempt to highlight the links between the criminals and N Irish politicians - great scoop but I wouldn't do it.