Ben Dover

[kinetic]

Time for a silly question - but if the approach he's taken is really that straightforward then why haven't the record companies and major film studios adopted it?

Also - does this just target torrents? What about the dodgy foreign sites that allow you to download if you have a rapidshare/megaupload account etc?

It all seems like a scare tactic - is he really going to chase someone whose download one or two clips/films? I imagine there are a lot of judges that are going to have to get clued up pretty quickly about the world of the internet!

[jimslip]

To my knowledge no such case has ended up in court. Why? Because it is a simple matter of being frightened out of your wits into paying up EVEN if you are innocent, because the choice is being exposed to your employer, friends and family as a porn junkie and pervert.

I suspect this will be the implied threat in any letter you may get. Again just imagine some poor retired teacher getting such a letter. Imagine he lives in a small village, but lives next door to a porn junkie who's hacked his router.

I am sorry, but I could imagine such a person committing suicide rather than face the "Shame" of being exposed in his community, he would pay up even if he was totally innocent.

But hey, who cares, it's just "Collateral damage!"

Although I despise people who are pirating material, I do believe this will put the final few nails into the coffin of British porn and send it into the furnace more effectively than pirates and anti porn activists.

We have a whole department fighting piracy, but stick to suing tube sites and the big players.

PS I thought the judge in this case had outlawed the demanding of money from the "Offenders?" due to possible distress?

[one eyed jack]

Jim,

How is receiving a letter like this going to expose you as`a porn junkie to your employer, friends and family? I can imagine these letters being just as discrete as getting your bills and junk mail

I think you are being a tad extreme to suggest a recipient of this letter would "commit suicide from shame"

Again you are playing that propoganda card that filesharers are somehow innocent. If thats the case, would it be ok to download a site rip of your site then share it among all my mates because Jim Slip is crusading the right of file sharers and is a cool guy because he is ok with it all.

Thats how it looks to me.

Does nayone know of anyone who has been a victim to this? Is there any testimonials? I keep hearing these nightmare stories and yet to date havent seen anyone report of such a thing even in the sensation seeking red tops.

I dont think this particular thing will put the final nails into the coffin of what is left of the porn industry at all. Freeloaders have effectively done most of the damage and the tube sites themselves for`setting a precedent you need not pay for porn ever again.

For the most part I dont think a lot of filesharers are even aware of this scheme

There is still a lot of money spent on porn and sex, its just the medium of interest has changed Why watch porn on your PC when you can interact with a real woman and get straight down to the nitty gritty and be done inside 10 minutes? You cant pirate live interactivity. Record it for use later and it has no value anyway

[mrchapel]

Meh sooner or later anonymous will turn their eye his way.
To me Ben Dovers one of the culprits of porn going down the shitter.

[mrchapel]

And by the way I read a case of some kid accused of piracy who counter sued and won claiming his reputation had been sullied. If a 14 year old can do it what`ll happen when someone who knows what they`re doing and has a family and reputation sues.

[jimslip]

Why don't you read the Speculative Invoicing Handbook carefully and then perhaps you will see what this case is REALLY all about. There will be an implied threat in any letter sent to a so called "downloader". I think maybe you've been in porn too long, but how is a normal person who's never looked at porn in his life going to feel about getting such a letter that is stating in legal language that he has downloaded porn. He will be horrified!

If he dares to contest it, he is threatened with court action and he can't prove his innocence, so he will be presumed guilty by everyone in his town as soon as the case is reported in the local paper. So what choice has he got, HE MUST PAY!

I just believe there will be many innocent people swept up in this shit, its not propoganda, it is statistically extremely likely.

If some real downloaders get screwed then I don't give a toss, but I believe many downloaders are too cunning to use their own IP's and will simply hack into someone elses.

Oh yes and by the way, I thought they were only going after "Uploaders." that didn't last long!



Also, why would I be anti any attempt to curb piracy? I of all people lose a fortune through my stuff pirated all over the World and we spend a fortune attacking tube sites etc. All bendover will do is terrify anyone even surfing the net for porn, because to the layman, this case appears to suggest that people like bendover can actually see into your living room and look at what you are surfing for and make notes.

Basically how do you know that while innocently surfing you are not going to get entrapped in some way. After all it would be so simple. An unscrupulous operater offers a " official genuine peek" at some porn, collects all the IP addresses of people that have downloaded the trailer or whatever, after a couple of months shuts the trailer down and then starts sending threatening letters to all those who downloaded the "official trailer", which wasn't. The downloaders can't prove it was "official" and are forced to pay up.

The life blood of porn is being able to surf at will. The "opt in" plan is far less destructive than the fear of God being put into innocent porn surfers by this case.

[snowman]

If someone had purchased ben dover or any other porn videos via download and then lost them due to hard drive failure and later redownloaded the files illegally would they still have to pay a fine as they had purchased the files in the first place?

[one eyed jack]

Ive read it Jim and lets face it, if its off a site like torrentfreak its their to justify their right not to pay for stuff they can share for free.

Speculative invoicing is bad by its very intent but lets not lose sight of copyright infringement and what this means Jim,

If anyone read the tiny print that scrolled up before the video started theres is an iron clad warning that the video is licensed for home use only and shall not be re-edited in any way, exhibited on oil rigs etc. Its pretty self explanator and air tight in its explanation, meaning the owner of that video is the only one entitled to watch it. Technically he cant even invite his mates around towatch it if you take it word for word but lets not get too crazy here

You are single handedly advertising yourself as a great guy who will not do anyhting about piracy so therefore if you are cool with it people reading your posts will think "Ah its ok to download Jims stuff. Hes on BGAFD. Hes a friend tothe people.

Without prejudice Jim, this sounds like a Ben bashing moment. I can totally understand this because you old schoolers are competitive in that way so this looks like a perfect chance to have a swift dig.

Ive noticed other producers like yourself havent chimed in and I suspect its because while Ben may not have open support from fellow producers many are thinkin to themselves...Well if we dont do something about it the inactivity sends the message out its ok and its open season for everyone to download that latest scene theyve invested their ow money on.

This is a business Jim. Not a kibbutz where you fork out your hard earned and give it away.

Make your mind up which side of the fence you are on but if you want to play Robin Hood you are merely advertising all the more that the porn industry is ok with this.

In fact I know that a majority of the porn industry is very mixed on this (at least 20 producers I know of) because, believe it or not, we are not all money grabbing to the expense of ruining someones life.

If I was at the centre of someone innocent getting caught I would look into it more carefully. I would ask to scrutinise the persons computer with their permission of course. If they dont want to and given they are charged then they leave me no choice that they are guilty but if proven innocent I would give them a personal apology and explain what has happened.

This is like firing of an automatic weapon and invariably it will hit people who it was not intended for

Lets not confuse ACS Laws speculative invoicing with Ben Dovers copyright infringement.

[tommy dickfingers]

They say they are going to contact 2000 people,that doesn't seem a lot really sounds like they are targeting the ones who do it for a living,like uploading to xvideos or onto a dvd.

[one eyed jack]

Mr Chapel wrote:

And by the way I read a case of some kid accused of piracy who counter sued and won claiming his reputation had been sullied. If a 14 year old can do it what`ll happen when someone who knows what they`re doing and has a family and reputation sues.


Have you got a link to that story please?