Are you about to lose your job, Argie?

[Porn Baron]

Who in their right mind thought this a good idea?

[David Johnson]

Well the Tories seem to think it is a good idea to help win the election. There is an air of desperation about the Tories.

They tried to slaughter Miliband's character along with the 90% of the British press which is owned by Tory supporters. That didn't work

Then they tried to talk about fiscal rectitude and that the Tories would look after the money and bring the deficit down whilst Labour would spray the money around. That didn't work.

So now in desperation they are spraying around money like there is no deficit and there is no tomorrow. So in a short period they have gone from a Budget in which the red lights are on the dashboard etc etc. to a situation in which they have made promises for ?30 billion a year unfunded spending in the last few days e.g increases in childcare hours, extra ?8 billion a year for the NHS, taking houses worth up to a million out of inheritance tax, right to buy for over a million housing association tenants, taking minimum wage workers out of tax etc. etc.

All of this while the Tories still promise to get rid of the deficit by 2018.

This is all complete and utter shite.

[Arginald Valleywater]

Just wondered DJ if you have ever been on a council or considered standing for public office? You can spout statistics and party line for hours and are world class at not recognising someone has an alternative and equally valuable point of view. I suspect you led a solitary childhood being force fed lies on how nice Stalin was and how Mao was kind and gentle.
As for my job? Housing Associations are intelligent enough to have massively diversified. The return of RTB was talked about early last year...our Chief Exec has regular meetings with the housing mininster and her Labour oppo. Don't take us for fools.....

[David Johnson]

"You can spout statistics and party line "

I have already slagged off the Labour Party in this thread for supporting Right to Buy so that is clearly not true.

"I suspect you led a solitary childhood being force fed lies on how nice Stalin was and how Mao was kind and gentle"

Rather childish insults are usually the sign of a seemingly desperate man, out of his depth in having a sensible discussion about an important topic.

"Housing Associations are intelligent enough to have massively diversified. The return of RTB was talked about early last year...our Chief Exec has regular meetings with the housing mininster and her Labour oppo."

No doubt, but these meetings have not stopped the Tories completely ignoring the views of Housing Associations on this topic which is why they are threatening a legal challenge if these plans come in force.

Secondly on the subject of diversification, this represents generally less than 20% of overall HA revenue. Much of this diversification is based on funding from various financial bodies. Being forced to sell off your most valuable properties, which is what the Tory plan insists as a way of funding the scheme will go down very badly with the providers of those funds. This is a major reason why the HAs are threatening a legal challenge.

[Arginald Valleywater]

As we are heading for another Coalition or Hung Parliament I am really not that fussed.

[David Johnson]

Yes. I imagine when the Lib Dems went into coalition with Cameron, the students weren't that fussed........initially.

Being in coalition wouldn't necessarily stop either Labour or the Tories' policies being implemented.

[Arginald Valleywater]

We had our quarterly get together this morning. Our Chief Exec laughed off the idea on cost alone. Plus Oop North RTB/RTA has plateaued for years. The major banks, and my mate is a mortgage advisor with a major bank, are not taking benefits into consideration like some dodgy lenders did. Plus being blunt a lot of social tenants would fail a credit check. I'm off to buy a holiday and a new PC.

[David Johnson]

Based on your insults and you quoting your Chief Exec, I suspect that you have been rattled by this thread, despite the bluster of "I'm off to buy a holiday and a new PC"

What I would say is the following:

1. I would have been gobsmacked if your Chief Exec had said anything else. That is what bosses say to make sure that staff are not unsettled and get on with their jobs rather than talking about potential scenarios.

2. Look at the figures. Even if I was on benefits, if I had been in a Housing Association flat for 10 years I would get 70% of the value of that flat for nowt. Do you seriously think that would not be an over poweringly attractive deal? In that situation I would get loans from family, relations, mates, private companies - anything I possibly could to buy the place. If you have been struggling and someone says here's ?80K for free, what would YOU do Argie? It's like having a medium value lottery win without having to buy the tickets

3. A classic case for lots of right to buys would be old age pensioners. My parents lived in a Housing Association flat. There were whole areas of Blackpool which had been set aside for tenants who were getting on. If my parents had been alive when a measure like this came in they would have bought the flat via RTB at a pittance so that they had something to hand over to me. Many, many, many families will act in exactly the same way and get their hands on the money somehow to make it possible.

4. If you seriously think that new mortgage rules on who can get mortgages will not be circumvented by people going to third parties to get funding then you are living in cloud cuckoo land. I know it is not the same, but if I said to you, unemployed people won't be able to borrow money from local lenders because it is illegal, you would think I was having a laugh. Of course people and companies will find ways around "mortgage guidelines".

[David Johnson]

I don't know if it was your Chief Exec that said that RTB and RTA had plateaud or whether this is something you have come up with Argie to reassure yourself.

Either way it is a statement of the bleeding obvious. RTB has been going since 1980 so it is not surprising that there has been a drop-off in sales from the peak time. The terms of RTA for Housing Associations are much less generous.

In the first 10 years of RTB in the eighties over a million council houses were sold off. Given the current housing problems with private rents soaring and house prices much higher I would expect there to be a similar level of sales if RTB was brought in by the Tories.for HA properties. Tenants will be looking to make a killing with many in the north getting discounts equivalent to the total sales price of a similar flat or house.

Keep in mind the first 15 years of RTB had similar sales to the entire stock of Housing Association accommodation, I would seriously consider jumping before you get pushed if the Tories get in, Arge.

[Arginald Valleywater]

When did DJ become the UK's pre-eminent expert on housing? Never see his name on anything from the Chartered Institute or National Housing Fed? I am so rattled I am even thinking of changing my car.....