You said that people in the past used to lampoon the establishment. I say that you were risking life and limb in the not too distant past by doing so.
Shakespeare didn't start a religion, he was an artist. Bad analogy Mr Slater. Having a different philosophy does make you different from other people.
In 1938 the murder of a German official in Paris by a Jew provoked a massive reprisal in Germany called Krystalnacht. By offering a little historical parallel with current events how are my views in line with Nazi Germany exactly? The national front in France, who are neo-Nazis would love to eliminate ethnic minorities and there was no protest as such in France when the Roma were deported not so long ago.
So your response to what you call silly ideas was not a rational debate, just a heap of abuse that made no sense at all. Free speech, if it offends others for no reason other than to offend and marginalise and label others is quite wrong. I suggest you review the works of one Julius Streicher to illustrate my point about lampooning other people.
How does calling you an ignorant bigot because you rant and swear rather than discuss make me a bigot exactly? You're not making sense.
I didn't link murder to freedom of speech. I said with some irony that simple lack of sensitivity resulted in murder and that murder could have been prevented by ordinary common sense, even ordinary manners. It is possible to provoke deluded people into extreme action by offending what they believe to be important.
While you are banding the rather lazy term Islamist used over and over by the BBC to label all Muslims, let's just stop and remember that aside from a very few individuals, there was no response from that community. I did not blame the murdered people, I said that one thing led to another, which can and did happen.
Mr Slater you are not left-wing, let's get that straight. You fail to understand that outrages are used by those in power to remove the civil liberties of everybody in society as much as possible. Politicians aren't interested in your liberty. It doesn't matter if people agree with you in droves, it doesn't make you right. Please refer to Nazi Germany for an illustration of that. Somebody with a left-wing ideas would see the subversion of liberty.
No you are not the first person in the world to link a woman's body to rape. You aren't original. But the associations in your mind from a woman's body to rape are quite strange. If you did some word association and short skirt produced the response rape from you, then you'd have to admit that it's not exactly healthy. To use the short skirt/rape analogy in public and think nothing odd about doing so is quite strange. I had a colleague who thought that all glamour photographers were rapists btw.
Cartoon.
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Nobody has mentioned respect....
[quote]You said that people in the past used to lampoon the establishment. I say that you were risking life and limb in the not too distant past by doing so.[/quote]
You still don't get it. For the 3rd time, you seem to want to go back to a time where it was dangerous to lampoon the powerful. You don't seem to either realise this or won't admit it.
[quote]Shakespeare didn't start a religion, he was an artist. Bad analogy Mr Slater.[/quote]
You brought up religion's cultural and historical significance as a reason we shouldn't mock it. That's why I brought up Shakespeare. We never argued or discussed the difference between a playwright and a religion......although they both dabble in a whole lot of fiction.
[quote]Having a different philosophy does make you different from other people.[/quote]
Yeah.....you already said that and I already addressed it in my last post. You missed my point.
[quote]In 1938 the murder of a German official in Paris by a Jew provoked a massive reprisal in Germany called Krystalnacht. By offering a little historical parallel with current events how are my views in line with Nazi Germany exactly?[/quote]
The Nazis clamped down of anyone who mocked or ridiculed them. You want to do the same.
[quote]The national front in France, who are neo-Nazis would love to eliminate ethnic minorities and there was no protest as such in France when the Roma were deported not so long ago.[/quote]
Good job we have enough freedom of expression to criticise and mock these neo-nazis then, isn't it? I mean, in your world we wouldn't be able to.
[quote]So your response to what you call silly ideas was not a rational debate, just a heap of abuse that made no sense at all.[/quote]
I made no sense to you, maybe. Maybe the fault lies in your lack of understanding. And, again.....you called me a bigot. You abused me. I didn't abuse you.....only your ideas.
[quote]Free speech, if it offends others for no reason other than to offend and marginalise and label others is quite wrong.[/quote]
Then stop having a go at those neo-nazis.
[quote]I suggest you review the works of one Julius Streicher to illustrate my point[/quote]
I suggest you read a little John Stuart Mill.......and just about any respected free-thinker of the last 120 years.
[quote]How does calling you an ignorant bigot because you rant and swear rather than discuss make me a bigot exactly?[/quote]
If you'd looked up the definition then you'd know........or maybe not. I explained it in my last post. Me swearing at your ideas is not me being intolerant of them. Has it clicked yet, lad?
[quote]I didn't link murder to freedom of speech. I said with some irony that simple lack of sensitivity resulted in murder and that murder could have been prevented by ordinary common sense, even ordinary manners.[/quote]
Irony? Wtf? IRONY? Where's the irony in that? Do you type out words you think sound good in sentences without actually knowing what they mean? And you just linked murder to their lack of common sense (which, as we know, you were referring to the cartoons). Therefore you've just done it again.
[quote]It is possible to provoke deluded people into extreme action by offending what they believe to be important.[/quote]
Glad you said that. So you want to make things illegal because of what deluded people might do. So we should base our society around the possible behavior of the deluded? Yeah..........right.
[quote]While you are banding the rather lazy term Islamist used over and over by the BBC to label all Muslims, let's just stop and remember that aside from a very few individuals, there was no response from that community.[/quote]
Wtf are you on about, man? This is a completely separate point to freedom of speech. You're bouncing around all over the place. Not to mention, you're totally wrong. BBC calling all Muslims 'Islamists'..........I mean, really. Take off that tin-foil hat.
[quote]I did not blame the murdered people, I said that one thing led to another, which can and did happen.[/quote]
Already addressed this. You did. Wear a short skirt....one thing leads to another and you're raped. Geddit?
[quote]Mr Slater you are not left-wing, let's get that straight.[/quote]
So you want to decide what we can and cannot say and you also want to decide how/what people refer to themselves as. A proper little dictator we have here.
[quote]You fail to understand that outrages are used by those in power to remove the civil liberties of everybody in society as much as possible.[/quote]
Then we fight back against those people in power trying to take away our liberties. And you know what we need to fight back don't you? Yes, you've guessed it..........come now.........oh, alright then, I'll tell you. We need the freedom to criticise, ridicule and express our views as loudly and as often as we like. And it was you that had the temerity to say your views were based on logic!
[quote]But the associations in your mind from a woman's body to rape are quite strange.[/quote]
Cheap, way off the mark and and childish. You know that I'm using other people's mindsets on rape, who DO link rape to how girls dress as an analogy to show where you're going wrong. How old are you? Grow up, man.
[quote]I had a colleague who thought that all glamour photographers were rapists btw.[/quote]
Get better colleagues.
You still don't get it. For the 3rd time, you seem to want to go back to a time where it was dangerous to lampoon the powerful. You don't seem to either realise this or won't admit it.
[quote]Shakespeare didn't start a religion, he was an artist. Bad analogy Mr Slater.[/quote]
You brought up religion's cultural and historical significance as a reason we shouldn't mock it. That's why I brought up Shakespeare. We never argued or discussed the difference between a playwright and a religion......although they both dabble in a whole lot of fiction.
[quote]Having a different philosophy does make you different from other people.[/quote]
Yeah.....you already said that and I already addressed it in my last post. You missed my point.
[quote]In 1938 the murder of a German official in Paris by a Jew provoked a massive reprisal in Germany called Krystalnacht. By offering a little historical parallel with current events how are my views in line with Nazi Germany exactly?[/quote]
The Nazis clamped down of anyone who mocked or ridiculed them. You want to do the same.
[quote]The national front in France, who are neo-Nazis would love to eliminate ethnic minorities and there was no protest as such in France when the Roma were deported not so long ago.[/quote]
Good job we have enough freedom of expression to criticise and mock these neo-nazis then, isn't it? I mean, in your world we wouldn't be able to.
[quote]So your response to what you call silly ideas was not a rational debate, just a heap of abuse that made no sense at all.[/quote]
I made no sense to you, maybe. Maybe the fault lies in your lack of understanding. And, again.....you called me a bigot. You abused me. I didn't abuse you.....only your ideas.
[quote]Free speech, if it offends others for no reason other than to offend and marginalise and label others is quite wrong.[/quote]
Then stop having a go at those neo-nazis.
[quote]I suggest you review the works of one Julius Streicher to illustrate my point[/quote]
I suggest you read a little John Stuart Mill.......and just about any respected free-thinker of the last 120 years.
[quote]How does calling you an ignorant bigot because you rant and swear rather than discuss make me a bigot exactly?[/quote]
If you'd looked up the definition then you'd know........or maybe not. I explained it in my last post. Me swearing at your ideas is not me being intolerant of them. Has it clicked yet, lad?
[quote]I didn't link murder to freedom of speech. I said with some irony that simple lack of sensitivity resulted in murder and that murder could have been prevented by ordinary common sense, even ordinary manners.[/quote]
Irony? Wtf? IRONY? Where's the irony in that? Do you type out words you think sound good in sentences without actually knowing what they mean? And you just linked murder to their lack of common sense (which, as we know, you were referring to the cartoons). Therefore you've just done it again.
[quote]It is possible to provoke deluded people into extreme action by offending what they believe to be important.[/quote]
Glad you said that. So you want to make things illegal because of what deluded people might do. So we should base our society around the possible behavior of the deluded? Yeah..........right.
[quote]While you are banding the rather lazy term Islamist used over and over by the BBC to label all Muslims, let's just stop and remember that aside from a very few individuals, there was no response from that community.[/quote]
Wtf are you on about, man? This is a completely separate point to freedom of speech. You're bouncing around all over the place. Not to mention, you're totally wrong. BBC calling all Muslims 'Islamists'..........I mean, really. Take off that tin-foil hat.
[quote]I did not blame the murdered people, I said that one thing led to another, which can and did happen.[/quote]
Already addressed this. You did. Wear a short skirt....one thing leads to another and you're raped. Geddit?
[quote]Mr Slater you are not left-wing, let's get that straight.[/quote]
So you want to decide what we can and cannot say and you also want to decide how/what people refer to themselves as. A proper little dictator we have here.
[quote]You fail to understand that outrages are used by those in power to remove the civil liberties of everybody in society as much as possible.[/quote]
Then we fight back against those people in power trying to take away our liberties. And you know what we need to fight back don't you? Yes, you've guessed it..........come now.........oh, alright then, I'll tell you. We need the freedom to criticise, ridicule and express our views as loudly and as often as we like. And it was you that had the temerity to say your views were based on logic!
[quote]But the associations in your mind from a woman's body to rape are quite strange.[/quote]
Cheap, way off the mark and and childish. You know that I'm using other people's mindsets on rape, who DO link rape to how girls dress as an analogy to show where you're going wrong. How old are you? Grow up, man.
[quote]I had a colleague who thought that all glamour photographers were rapists btw.[/quote]
Get better colleagues.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Cartoon.
I've looked around online and you can see it here and there. A lot of broadcasters did seem afraid to show it though.