Giles Fraser
Re: Essex Lad
Don't think he is married to an Algerian though...
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Giles Fraser
As everyone can see......if parish preacher says "I'm not trying to get religion off the hook." then, obviously, he's not trying to get religion off the hook. No, not at all. Silly me.
In other news, David Cameron is not taking off the poor to give to the rich because he says he isn't, so there.
These apologists for religion are sweet honey for conservative, bigoted preachers and Imams and the enemy of progressives and liberals worldwide. Shame on them.
In other news, David Cameron is not taking off the poor to give to the rich because he says he isn't, so there.
These apologists for religion are sweet honey for conservative, bigoted preachers and Imams and the enemy of progressives and liberals worldwide. Shame on them.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
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- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Essex Lad
Well I suspect I spent more time in Denmark that anyone else on this forum as far as I am aware and had some Danish girlfriends during that time (lovely women they were too). I don't think that makes me an expert on Danish domestic and foreign policy.
I mean what I say. If Fisk is wrong, please provide an analysis as to why he is wrong. I am sure Fisk would be interested and you could post your email on this website.
I mean what I say. If Fisk is wrong, please provide an analysis as to why he is wrong. I am sure Fisk would be interested and you could post your email on this website.
Re: Giles Fraser
Bollocks
A perceptive and less intelligent comment I use to fuckwit apologists.
A perceptive and less intelligent comment I use to fuckwit apologists.
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David Johnson
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- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Andrew
Being angry does not eguate being correct Andrew.
Maybe you and Sam could share thoughts and answer this question. You could start by explaining to Sam what the following actually means " Islam cannot be let off the hook, but IN ADDITION (not instead of blaming Islam,) etc"
Or maybe you could explain what "To say their (the victims in Charlie Hebdo's) assassinations had nothing to do with religion is nonsense" actually means.
"Again, the point you have never been able to cope with either directly to me or via a reply to a third party (your preferred way ever since you had a hissy fit) is to explain why a religion which has many, many devout believers in this country has not led to a huge number of executions, assassinations and the streets of Birmingham, Bradford etc. running with blood on a nightly basis.
To repeat, Islam cannot be let off the hook, but in addition there are other key factors which Fraser's quote accurately describes."
Sam can't answer the question, maybe you and he will be able to.
Maybe you and Sam could share thoughts and answer this question. You could start by explaining to Sam what the following actually means " Islam cannot be let off the hook, but IN ADDITION (not instead of blaming Islam,) etc"
Or maybe you could explain what "To say their (the victims in Charlie Hebdo's) assassinations had nothing to do with religion is nonsense" actually means.
"Again, the point you have never been able to cope with either directly to me or via a reply to a third party (your preferred way ever since you had a hissy fit) is to explain why a religion which has many, many devout believers in this country has not led to a huge number of executions, assassinations and the streets of Birmingham, Bradford etc. running with blood on a nightly basis.
To repeat, Islam cannot be let off the hook, but in addition there are other key factors which Fraser's quote accurately describes."
Sam can't answer the question, maybe you and he will be able to.
Re: Essex Lad
The problem with you (or one of them) is that you support your arguments (immigration, crime figures etc) using government statistics whereas people who actually live in the real world have more of a feel for what is really going on.
For example, immigration is not beneficial if you happen to be white working class but you say it is because the government provides stats that say it is.
Same with Algeria and what is really going on there.
Also, your nemesis disagrees with you (again) so you are always going to take a view contrary to him.
For example, immigration is not beneficial if you happen to be white working class but you say it is because the government provides stats that say it is.
Same with Algeria and what is really going on there.
Also, your nemesis disagrees with you (again) so you are always going to take a view contrary to him.
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
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Re: Essex Lad
Actually, Essex Lad, using government statistics might not always be the best option, but it is nearly always better than public perceptions, which are swayed by many things.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Essex Lad
"whereas people who actually live in the real world have more of a feel for what is really going on."
Like I said explain to me why Fisk is wrong based on your "real world" experience, instead of all this diversionary stuff "I live in the real world, you don't"
If you can't back up your views, what contribution can you make?
"Also, your nemesis disagrees with you (again) so you are always going to take a view contrary to him."
I think Sam and I agree on the vast majority of topics so you are obviously wrong in that. I wonder how someone like Sam "I hate Islam" who is very much in favour of multicurtalism, had a happy upbringing in an overwhelmingly Muslim are, has come to his Imam like secularist views.
Like I said explain to me why Fisk is wrong based on your "real world" experience, instead of all this diversionary stuff "I live in the real world, you don't"
If you can't back up your views, what contribution can you make?
"Also, your nemesis disagrees with you (again) so you are always going to take a view contrary to him."
I think Sam and I agree on the vast majority of topics so you are obviously wrong in that. I wonder how someone like Sam "I hate Islam" who is very much in favour of multicurtalism, had a happy upbringing in an overwhelmingly Muslim are, has come to his Imam like secularist views.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Sam
As in the overwhelming proportion of your posts on here, you are correct, Sam
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Sam
"These apologists for religion "
People like Fraser are not apologists for religion. I just think life is not as straightforward as you seem to believe.
If a radical Islamist commits a murder as in Paris, Islam is a factor without question. But if Islam is the only factor in murders carried out by radical Islamists, than why has this not been happening every night either in France or Britain?
THe answer is that Islam is one factor but often, not always, there are other factors at play too. That is the point Fraser is making. I agree with him.
Hardly a revolutionary view, I know. Just commonsense as much as anything else.
People like Fraser are not apologists for religion. I just think life is not as straightforward as you seem to believe.
If a radical Islamist commits a murder as in Paris, Islam is a factor without question. But if Islam is the only factor in murders carried out by radical Islamists, than why has this not been happening every night either in France or Britain?
THe answer is that Islam is one factor but often, not always, there are other factors at play too. That is the point Fraser is making. I agree with him.
Hardly a revolutionary view, I know. Just commonsense as much as anything else.