The UK is the sixth or seventh biggest economy in the world. Think about that point and then think about the size of Britain. Pretty amazing eh?
Now you may think this is all down to Scotland but I am not convinced. The Scottish government has consistently over-estimated the oil revenues which are key to its survival at the spending levels it currently has.
Oh, by the way WIlliam, you have completely changed your tune, haven't you? Totally agalnst Salmond and independence as I recall.
Scottish independence betting
Re: William
Perhaps William has changed his tune due to doing some research.
David we are never going to agree on this and I won't be back on here for at least a few days as I will be moving house, but I will leave you with this observation.
The better together/no thanks campaign has consistently tried to play the man and not the ball ie attacked Salmond and tried to personalise the whole debate. It is not working for two reasons:
1. It is NOT about Salmond, it is about a democratic deficit whereby Scotland can vote for whoever it wants (Labour for the last 40+ years) but will get what the south east of England wants. I do not think this is wrong as the majority of the population live in that area so it is right that the majority of seats are concentrated there. But that area of the UK has a hugely different agenda to Scotland and always will. Scotland is approx. 1/3 of the UK land mass with approx. 1/10 of the population, this will naturally lead to increased costs for services such as schools and hospitals.
2. Slamond has known for years that the establishment would be after him for every misdemeanour so he has been very smart not to give them any ammo.
Darling has flipped his home 4 times so far in expenses claims. He also had us paying for a london flat while he was living at 11 Downing St and letting the aforementioned flat WE were paying for out for a nice wee profit!
Jim Murphy has been caught with his hands in the till, he is one of the most expensive MP's at westminster!
Salmond has been squeaky clean so far, don't you think something would have come to light by now if he had done anything? Incidentally there was a period when Salmond was a member of both parliaments and so earned two salaries...he donated one salary to a local children's charity.
I am not a huge fan of Salmond but I respect him. I do not agree with him on all issues (nuclear power being a major one and the sectarian behaviour bill rushed through a couple of years ago being another) but I would say overall he and the SNP have managed our pocket money pretty well for that last 7 years. We actually have a finance minister (John Swinney) that balances the books!
David we are never going to agree on this and I won't be back on here for at least a few days as I will be moving house, but I will leave you with this observation.
The better together/no thanks campaign has consistently tried to play the man and not the ball ie attacked Salmond and tried to personalise the whole debate. It is not working for two reasons:
1. It is NOT about Salmond, it is about a democratic deficit whereby Scotland can vote for whoever it wants (Labour for the last 40+ years) but will get what the south east of England wants. I do not think this is wrong as the majority of the population live in that area so it is right that the majority of seats are concentrated there. But that area of the UK has a hugely different agenda to Scotland and always will. Scotland is approx. 1/3 of the UK land mass with approx. 1/10 of the population, this will naturally lead to increased costs for services such as schools and hospitals.
2. Slamond has known for years that the establishment would be after him for every misdemeanour so he has been very smart not to give them any ammo.
Darling has flipped his home 4 times so far in expenses claims. He also had us paying for a london flat while he was living at 11 Downing St and letting the aforementioned flat WE were paying for out for a nice wee profit!
Jim Murphy has been caught with his hands in the till, he is one of the most expensive MP's at westminster!
Salmond has been squeaky clean so far, don't you think something would have come to light by now if he had done anything? Incidentally there was a period when Salmond was a member of both parliaments and so earned two salaries...he donated one salary to a local children's charity.
I am not a huge fan of Salmond but I respect him. I do not agree with him on all issues (nuclear power being a major one and the sectarian behaviour bill rushed through a couple of years ago being another) but I would say overall he and the SNP have managed our pocket money pretty well for that last 7 years. We actually have a finance minister (John Swinney) that balances the books!
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David Johnson
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Mick
"The better together/no thanks campaign has consistently tried to play the man and not the ball ie attacked Salmond and tried to personalise the whole debate."
I am not convinced this is true. The No campaign has concentrated on asking what currency, if not, the pound what; EU membership; oil revenues and their volatility, what happens on pensions etc. etc. The Yes campaign has concentrated on - it is all Westminster's fault; the NHS even though Salmond has had control of the NHS for many years, including tax raising powers etc. etc.
"It is not working for two reasons:
1. It is NOT about Salmond, it is about a democratic deficit whereby Scotland can vote for whoever it wants "
This is called democracy. I realise that most of your views are based on the Braveheart emotional level. However I will give you the example of Francois Hollande, the leader of the French Socialist party who came to power promising a brave new dawn for French socialism and look at him now? Lesson Number 1. You cannot buck economic realities. That is why Salmond has done little or nothing to help the less well off in Scotland despite tax raising power whilst promising the earth post-referendum.
" 2. Slamond has known for years that the establishment would be after him for every misdemeanour so he has been very smart not to give them any ammo.
Darling has flipped his home 4 times so far in expenses claims. He also had us paying for a london flat while he was living at 11 Downing St and letting the aforementioned flat WE were paying for out for a nice wee profit!
Jim Murphy has been caught with his hands in the till, he is one of the most expensive MP's at westminster! "
Err, and you accuse the No campaign of playing the man rather than the ball? I suggest you read your own post again. A classic example of playing the man, in this case Alistair Darling.
Whatever happens Mick in a couple of weeks, don't set yourself up for a big fall. I see little difference between independence lite which is what Salmond is offering and people are voting on and devo max.
Like I said, ask yourself, Mick. Why is Salmond so terrified of independence?
I am not convinced this is true. The No campaign has concentrated on asking what currency, if not, the pound what; EU membership; oil revenues and their volatility, what happens on pensions etc. etc. The Yes campaign has concentrated on - it is all Westminster's fault; the NHS even though Salmond has had control of the NHS for many years, including tax raising powers etc. etc.
"It is not working for two reasons:
1. It is NOT about Salmond, it is about a democratic deficit whereby Scotland can vote for whoever it wants "
This is called democracy. I realise that most of your views are based on the Braveheart emotional level. However I will give you the example of Francois Hollande, the leader of the French Socialist party who came to power promising a brave new dawn for French socialism and look at him now? Lesson Number 1. You cannot buck economic realities. That is why Salmond has done little or nothing to help the less well off in Scotland despite tax raising power whilst promising the earth post-referendum.
" 2. Slamond has known for years that the establishment would be after him for every misdemeanour so he has been very smart not to give them any ammo.
Darling has flipped his home 4 times so far in expenses claims. He also had us paying for a london flat while he was living at 11 Downing St and letting the aforementioned flat WE were paying for out for a nice wee profit!
Jim Murphy has been caught with his hands in the till, he is one of the most expensive MP's at westminster! "
Err, and you accuse the No campaign of playing the man rather than the ball? I suggest you read your own post again. A classic example of playing the man, in this case Alistair Darling.
Whatever happens Mick in a couple of weeks, don't set yourself up for a big fall. I see little difference between independence lite which is what Salmond is offering and people are voting on and devo max.
Like I said, ask yourself, Mick. Why is Salmond so terrified of independence?
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David Johnson
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- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Forgot to mention Mick
The UK has not given an overall majority for the Tories for nigh on 23 years. And I can't see the Tories getting an overall majority at the next election either which would make it 28 years by 2020.
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Scottish independence betting
Hey, Mick, what are your feelings on sectarianism in Glasgow and stuff?
I've a feeling that if Scotland became independent, with a close 53/48 split, the country will be affectively split in two and could lead to much more sectarianism.
You have problems with it now but it only really manifests itself in football. Outside that, most anger and angst is directed down south at the English and Westminster. When that is taken away and you have a country where nearly half of you voted against independence, I can imagine that sectarianism spilling over into society itself. I hope not, for everyone's sake, but I think all the ingredients are there. I just don't want the Scots who voted 'no' to be viewed as some sort of traitors in a newly independent Scotland.
I've a feeling that if Scotland became independent, with a close 53/48 split, the country will be affectively split in two and could lead to much more sectarianism.
You have problems with it now but it only really manifests itself in football. Outside that, most anger and angst is directed down south at the English and Westminster. When that is taken away and you have a country where nearly half of you voted against independence, I can imagine that sectarianism spilling over into society itself. I hope not, for everyone's sake, but I think all the ingredients are there. I just don't want the Scots who voted 'no' to be viewed as some sort of traitors in a newly independent Scotland.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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Porn Baron
- Posts: 993
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
The Yes campaign takes the lead.
Panic Mr Mainwaring. !surrender!
How did they manage that?
Interesting that Westminster would be minus 59 MPs for the 2015 election, 40 of them Labour.
How did they manage that?
Interesting that Westminster would be minus 59 MPs for the 2015 election, 40 of them Labour.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: The Yes campaign takes the lead.
Well, good luck to the Scots if they vote Yes. I hope that it turns out well for them, but I doubt it. I suspect a cycle of vote yes, huge euphoria, getting back to normal, followed by despondency and regret as reality kicks in.
As long as I know what currency (smackeroonis as suggested by comedian, Kevin Bridges) to get when I am planning a holiday in Scotland, I will be happy.
As long as I know what currency (smackeroonis as suggested by comedian, Kevin Bridges) to get when I am planning a holiday in Scotland, I will be happy.
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Arginald Valleywater
- Posts: 4288
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: The Yes campaign takes the lead.
Don't forget your passport as you will be leaving the UK, The EU, Civilization etc.
Re: Forgot to mention Mick
Yip David a through and through unionist..... I was. But like most scots taking time out to find the facts and make up our own minds it has to be said that I made the switch when a lot of home truths were highlighted. Its the only way forward to make a go of it.
And yes I believe out of the union Scotland was always the wealthier partner - jst we believed the shite that flowed from westminster. The same greedy fuckers that screwed the expenses and generally gorged from the trough. If scotland go it alone yes we may still have politicians misbehaving but we will be our own masters and have an economy that will far exceed that of england in terms of liquid assets.
And yes I believe out of the union Scotland was always the wealthier partner - jst we believed the shite that flowed from westminster. The same greedy fuckers that screwed the expenses and generally gorged from the trough. If scotland go it alone yes we may still have politicians misbehaving but we will be our own masters and have an economy that will far exceed that of england in terms of liquid assets.
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David Johnson
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- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
William
"have an economy that will far exceed that of england in terms of liquid assets"
There is no evidence whatsoever to back that claim up, William.
GDP per person in Scotland is about ?3k more than England including oil revenues, but public expenditure is ?1,300 per person more in Scotland.
So even including oil and gas revenues there is limited differences. And it is worth pointing out that oil revenues are going down UK oil revenue has ranged from ?1.5bn in 1991-92 to ?27bn in 2011-12. It is estimated that 10/20% of Scotland's tax revenue would be based on oil, whereas that figure is 1.5% in the UK. So basically Scotland has most of its eggs in one basket.
There is no evidence whatsoever to back that claim up, William.
GDP per person in Scotland is about ?3k more than England including oil revenues, but public expenditure is ?1,300 per person more in Scotland.
So even including oil and gas revenues there is limited differences. And it is worth pointing out that oil revenues are going down UK oil revenue has ranged from ?1.5bn in 1991-92 to ?27bn in 2011-12. It is estimated that 10/20% of Scotland's tax revenue would be based on oil, whereas that figure is 1.5% in the UK. So basically Scotland has most of its eggs in one basket.