ISIS v Saudi

[Arginald Valleywater]

Just a thought. ISIS are a bunch of savage war mongering lunatics who behead people. Saudi Arabia is a friend of the western world who buys billions of pounds worth of our goods. And publicly beheads people legally. Any criticism of Saudi??? Err nope. New Bentley Sheikh Yaboouti?

[william]

ISIS are killing innocents...... Saudi kills criminals.....

Or are you at the pisstake again ?

[dave756]

I think the point is, no one in US government would say it barbaric to behead someone. I could be wrong.

[David Johnson]

The Saudis have publicly beheaded 19 people since August 4, including someone for the crime of sorcery, whatever that is supposed to be. Human rights are limited in Saudi.

The Saudi regime is underpinned by an extreme interpretation of Islam entitled Wahhabism. Many wealthy supporters of this sect are alleged to have funded the Islamic state.

And the criticism of this regime from Western governments? Don't recall personally any vehement criticism.

Could this possibly have something to do with Saudi Arabia's huge oil wealth and their enormous appetite for Western goods?

[Sam Slater]

Difference is, the Saudis for a long time had the world's largest oil reserves. I'm guessing this is the reason why we've routinely given the Saudis an easy ride as well as do things like arm Saddam against Iran (Saudis hate Iranians).

You want to stop that? Then become a tree hugger, insert solar panels all over your house and sell your car. You'll then be able to sleep that little bit easier knowing you're trying your best not to give money to the lunatics over there.

You'll be voting for the Green Party next election too, right? Good man.


And while I'm here I'm shocked at David Johnson's attack on Wahhabism. It's that sort of attitude thats paves the way for other forms of Islam to persecute Wahhabists unfairly. Saudi Arabia's Wahhabism has NOTHING to do with their beheading people for silly reasons.

Now I've got my sarcasm out of the way, I'll be serious:

David is in NO position to call Wahhabism 'extreme'. Only Allah could possibly know that for sure and everyone else is just guessing. Until Allah comes and tells us what's what, we do not know if anything ISIS or the Saudis do is 'extreme' or not. It might be perfectly acceptable and the only 'extremists' are us for being 'extremely' tolerant and liberal.

I cannot work out what 'extreme interpretation' actually means. Something can be interpreted correctly or incorrectly (and, as I've said, NOBODY can judge this apart from Allah). You can't interpret things 'extremely' can you? That's like saying I have an extreme understanding of the offside rule but my girlfriend has only a moderate understanding of it. It's unclear talk; it's gobbledygook.

For all we know, Wahhabism is the only form of Islam that is correct and Allah approved.

[dave756]

If someone reads a book then believes it OK to NOT cut someones head off that is what I would call not an 'extreme interpretation'.

You may need to jumble this up to suit your own personal argument or maybe just understand what the rest of us do about what an 'extreme interpretation' is.

[David Johnson]

"David is in NO position to call Wahhabism 'extreme'."

Oh yes I am and I have.

"I cannot work out what 'extreme interpretation' actually means."

That's because you are not trying. The Old Testament makes references to stoning adulterers to death. If that happens, in the 21st century by faith followers, I view that as an "extreme interpretation" of the Old Testament.

I will leave you to extrapolate that to other religions.

[Arginald Valleywater]

So it is fine for Saudi to behead, mutilate and lash people in public for adultery? A woman driving a car? Thought so. Oil blinds so many people.

[David Johnson]

What are you on about? If you are replying to me, I am not defending the UK for keeping quiet about Saudi Arabia

[Sam Slater]

Look, if you read a passage in a book that can be interpreted differently depending on the reader, there is no 'extremes' - just 'different'. Now, if the author comes and tells you what he meant, specifically, then some people will find their interpretations were correct and some will find their interpretations were incorrect.

'Extreme interpretation' is one of those phrases that sounds clever but is actually meaningless. We, as a society can judge on what acts people do and deem them 'extreme' based on our own morals and what's considered normal, but we cannot call the understanding of a text which causes extreme acts 'extreme' themselves.

And, as I said, we cannot call them 'wrong' interpretations either. There is no way anyone on Earth can tell you the correct interpretation of any holy book that has supposedly been passed down from an eternal, all knowing, all power full creator. Only that creator can say for sure. So, unless God/Allah decides to tell us the correct interpretation of the Bible and Quran, we can only guess. Surely that isn't hard to understand.

I'm only a man. I'm not God. Ok? Good. Here's something for you to interpret:

"Dave756 is a dolly grumper."

Do you know what a dolly grumper is? No. I just put two random words together for a laugh. In doing so I could probably give it meaning. I would know what I mean by 'dolly grumper'. You could guess. All the forum could guess. Intellectuals around the world could ponder over what it is to be a dolly grumper. Essays could be written. Articles wrote. Songs sung about dolly grumpers. But nobody would know for sure unless I told you. Right? Easy. 'Dolly grumper' is now open to interpretation. You could get it right and never know. You could get it wrong and never know. I'm not going to tell you you big old dolly grumper! But whatever you think it might mean, your interpretation cannot be 'extreme' or 'moderate'. That's daft isn't it?

So, you dolly grumper, always be aware of people saying things like "but they're misinterpreting the text" or "they're not real Muslims/Christians/Jews". You don't know, I don't know and for damn sure they don't know. Anyone who says they do is talking bollocks and just asking them 'how do you know?' will have them stuttering like Gareth Gates when Jordan asked him if he wanted to see her tits in that hotel room. Watch out for it.