"I wouldn't be an asylum seeker I would do what people across Europe used to do in times of dire-economic hardship and move, by getting official residency, in another country and work very hard there once I'd arrived to support myself and any family members I had taken with me. Huge numbers of Europeans used to emigrate to the New World as it was called then, worked hard, supported themselves and contributed. Look at Irish people, I have some Irish in my background but I view myself as totally English - they more or less built America. Brits and people from all over Europe moved to the USA, Australia and other places when things were hard in their own country and worked hard and were an asset to the place they had moved to."
Max, you are living in a world that existed 60 years or more ago. Then, the US opened their arms to the poor to come and work in the US. In the sixties Australia had ?10 assisted passages to their country which many from the UK took advantage. Britain was desperate for workers from overseas after the 2nd World War.
All that has clearly changed. Getting a green card is like gold dust. You would not have the opportunities now that existed in the past. As a non-EU worker unless you were rich or highly skilled you would have little chance. And the vast majority of those that came to this country did have the work ethic. Witness all the corner shops run by Asians. Witness all the Asian workers in the NHS.
How desperate do you think those Afghan Sikhs must have been to risk their lives to get out of Afghanistan?
You should be ashamed of your mean-spirited attitude.
Tilbury incident
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re. the right to work
Asylum seekers are generally speaking not allowed to work, pending the results of their asylum application. People awaiting a result on an asylum application are not eligible for most benefits.
Cash support for a single asylum seeker is about ?36 per week. They are not entitled to housing benefit. They may get accommodation provided by the UK Border Agency, but that is typically in hard to let property.
Like I said, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Cash support for a single asylum seeker is about ?36 per week. They are not entitled to housing benefit. They may get accommodation provided by the UK Border Agency, but that is typically in hard to let property.
Like I said, you should be ashamed of yourself.
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
David
I have just been reminded by a news report that these people came from Belgium. I don't know if they entered the container there or were in it already prior to the ship docking there. If they entered the container at Zeebrugge they had the opportunity to claim Asylum in Belgium, it is a safe country. I am wishing no ill on the individuals, I'm just highlighting my irritation of how the rules under the Asylum system state people must claim in the first safe country they get to, yet few do. If they were mobile in Belgium they should have done that, if locked in the container since leaving Afghanistan then they clearly couldn't as they wouldn't have been able to approach officials and claim Asylum. I don't know all the details of this specific case. My gripes about Asylum are shared by many, the system is heavily abused and we are an overcrowded country. If what you say about the restrictions on those claiming Asylum is correct then it should be altered, they should have an immediate ability to work, then they would not be a burden on the State. As Arginaled asked at the top: 'will they be given a one way ferry ticket back to Zeebrugge?' I don't see why they shouldn't be given that.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Max
"My gripes about Asylum are shared by many, the system is heavily abused and we are an overcrowded country."
Max, the first step in having an informed view of a topic is being "informed".
First I am correct that generally asylum seekers are not allowed to work until their case has been resolved. So all your claptrap about sponging off the state is exactly that, claptrap, if they are not allowed to work.
Secondly, the number of asylum applications in 2012 excluding dependents was 21,785.
Thirdly, about 30% of these applications tend to be accepted. The rest are refused.
Hardly a huge amount, eh Max? This figure is dwarfed by the number of British people leaving here to work overseas or claim benefits if they lose their jobs.
Get a grip, man!
Max, the first step in having an informed view of a topic is being "informed".
First I am correct that generally asylum seekers are not allowed to work until their case has been resolved. So all your claptrap about sponging off the state is exactly that, claptrap, if they are not allowed to work.
Secondly, the number of asylum applications in 2012 excluding dependents was 21,785.
Thirdly, about 30% of these applications tend to be accepted. The rest are refused.
Hardly a huge amount, eh Max? This figure is dwarfed by the number of British people leaving here to work overseas or claim benefits if they lose their jobs.
Get a grip, man!
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Max
"I have never understood the people-smuggling thing, it costs a lot of money to pay people smugglers and it also takes forever to get here, travelling in a lorry from country to country, or in a container on a ship. Someone could get a cheap flight, it would cost less than it costs to be smuggled the way I've just described, arrive here under of the guise of a holiday-maker and once here claim asylum".
Yeah, Max, these asylum seekers - thick or what? They could nip along and get a cheapo return ticket from Kabul to Heathrow on the basis of wanting to see the Changing of the Guard. Instead, what do they do? Pay some dodgy bloke thousands to spend a few nights in a shipping container.
Tell me Max. Have you ever thought of doing stand-up?
Yeah, Max, these asylum seekers - thick or what? They could nip along and get a cheapo return ticket from Kabul to Heathrow on the basis of wanting to see the Changing of the Guard. Instead, what do they do? Pay some dodgy bloke thousands to spend a few nights in a shipping container.
Tell me Max. Have you ever thought of doing stand-up?
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
David
Channel 4 News said just now that the people had been in the container "for 24 hours". This seems to confirm they got in it in Belgium, rather than having come all the way in it from Afghanistan, I was not sure where they entered the container but this news report seems to confirm they were mobile in Zeebrugge, entered the shipping container there and then headed to Britian in it where they were discovered at Tilbury 24 hours later. I still don't understand why they didn't claim in Belgium, it is a far far nicer, safer, more generous, and more affluent country than Afghanistan.
They clearly had no interest in claiming there, their desire to enter a container on a ship destined for the UK seems to imply that they needed to get out of that place and claim Asylum here. Why? I was in Bruges, Belgium, on holiday last year and met many locals. None of them mentioned any need or desire to escape from Belgium and head to Britain. Do you see? These Tilbury stowaways weren't fleeing difficulty, because the place they were last at had no difficulty in it, the place they started out from had that, but the later countries didn't. They were being selective about where they went and turned down the niceties of Belgium hospitality, protection and care, and chose to come here.
Channel 4 News also said the people have relatives in Southall, west London. A number of people called a hotline in the last day or two and this was confirmed.
They clearly had no interest in claiming there, their desire to enter a container on a ship destined for the UK seems to imply that they needed to get out of that place and claim Asylum here. Why? I was in Bruges, Belgium, on holiday last year and met many locals. None of them mentioned any need or desire to escape from Belgium and head to Britain. Do you see? These Tilbury stowaways weren't fleeing difficulty, because the place they were last at had no difficulty in it, the place they started out from had that, but the later countries didn't. They were being selective about where they went and turned down the niceties of Belgium hospitality, protection and care, and chose to come here.
Channel 4 News also said the people have relatives in Southall, west London. A number of people called a hotline in the last day or two and this was confirmed.
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
david
I Google'd flights from Kabul to London, loads of things came up and I've copied and pasted a bit of the main Google page to here. A lot cheaper than paying a people trafficker. Some are as cheap as 433 nicker! Much quicker too!
About 2,740,000 results (0.44 seconds)
Fly Kabul to London ?1110 - opodo.co.uk
Adwww.opodo.co.uk/KBL-LON
Fly from Kabul to London with Opodo. Your one-stop travel shop!
Exclusive Offers
- Multi-Stop Flights
- Daily Flight Deals
- Choose from 500 airlines
Fly London to Kabul - emirates.com
Adwww.emirates.com/Kabul
Kabul flights from ?485, book by 4/9 with Emirates.
140+ destinations ? World class service ? Spacious economy seats
Emirates has 2,001,216 followers on Google+
Emirates Skywards
- Services & Entertainment
- The Emirates Experience
easyJet from London - easyJet.com
Adwww.easyjet.com/
4.1 rating for easyjet.com
Fly with easyJet from London. Book now for great value fares
easyJet has 7,045 followers on Google+
City Breaks
- Where We Fly
- Discover London
- Beach Breaks
11h 35m duration, 1+ stops
Kabul, Afghanistan (KBL) to London (all airports)
Search flights on Google
11h 35m+
Turkish, British Airways
via Istanbul
13h 15m+
Turkish
via Istanbul
13h 15m+
Pakistan, SAS
via Islamabad, Copenhagen
13h 30m+
Turkish, Austrian
via Istanbul, Vienna
15h 40m+
Safi Airways Ltd., Qatar Airways
via Dubai, Doha
Send feedback
Flights to Kabul from ?433 - Kabul flights with Skyscanner
www.skyscanner.net ? Asia ? Afghanistan
We compare all major airlines and travel agents for cheap Kabul flights. Search ... Find cheap flights to Kabul with Skyscanner. Booking ... #1 Flights to London.
About 2,740,000 results (0.44 seconds)
Fly Kabul to London ?1110 - opodo.co.uk
Adwww.opodo.co.uk/KBL-LON
Fly from Kabul to London with Opodo. Your one-stop travel shop!
Exclusive Offers
- Multi-Stop Flights
- Daily Flight Deals
- Choose from 500 airlines
Fly London to Kabul - emirates.com
Adwww.emirates.com/Kabul
Kabul flights from ?485, book by 4/9 with Emirates.
140+ destinations ? World class service ? Spacious economy seats
Emirates has 2,001,216 followers on Google+
Emirates Skywards
- Services & Entertainment
- The Emirates Experience
easyJet from London - easyJet.com
Adwww.easyjet.com/
4.1 rating for easyjet.com
Fly with easyJet from London. Book now for great value fares
easyJet has 7,045 followers on Google+
City Breaks
- Where We Fly
- Discover London
- Beach Breaks
11h 35m duration, 1+ stops
Kabul, Afghanistan (KBL) to London (all airports)
Search flights on Google
11h 35m+
Turkish, British Airways
via Istanbul
13h 15m+
Turkish
via Istanbul
13h 15m+
Pakistan, SAS
via Islamabad, Copenhagen
13h 30m+
Turkish, Austrian
via Istanbul, Vienna
15h 40m+
Safi Airways Ltd., Qatar Airways
via Dubai, Doha
Send feedback
Flights to Kabul from ?433 - Kabul flights with Skyscanner
www.skyscanner.net ? Asia ? Afghanistan
We compare all major airlines and travel agents for cheap Kabul flights. Search ... Find cheap flights to Kabul with Skyscanner. Booking ... #1 Flights to London.
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andy at handiwork
- Posts: 4113
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Max
And how do you suggest they get hold of a visa to make this little holiday trip to Heathrow? And of course your average Kabul resident has a passport as well I'm sure.
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Max
I'm not sure what the deal is regarding getting a passport in Afghanistan. Kabul has a major airport processing many travellers each day. Flying is certainly a lot cheaper and quicker than the people smuggling route. I don't know if you need a visa for a holiday, you might need one to get work, but if they come as 'holiday makers' then claim Asylum as they disembark then that is a way into the UK for them.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Max
"I was not sure where they entered the container but this news report seems to confirm they were mobile in Zeebrugge, entered the shipping container there and then headed to Britian in it where they were discovered at Tilbury "
Really Max? The Channel 4 link says something completely different.
i.e. the Belgian police have no idea where the Afghans entered the container but they do think it highly unlikely that they entered the container at the port. That is why they are trying to track down the lorry driver and lorry concerned.
Really Max? The Channel 4 link says something completely different.
i.e. the Belgian police have no idea where the Afghans entered the container but they do think it highly unlikely that they entered the container at the port. That is why they are trying to track down the lorry driver and lorry concerned.