One man's terrorist is another man's......

[David Johnson]

....freedom fighter.

As far as I recall a year or so ago, Cameron, the Great Leader, was very keen on a military intervention in Syria against Assad and in support of the rebels. Cameron did not envisage boots on the ground as I recall, but did plan on potential air strikes, weapons provision and no doubt "advisers" to the rebels fighting in Syria.

Thankfully this was turned down by Parliament.

And yet one year later, these two have been arrested on their return to the UK for preparing to carry out "terrorist acts".



As far as I am aware they have not been charged with planning terrorist acts in the UK but for activities in Syria fighting against Assad, the very Assad that Cameron wanted a military intervention against a year ago.

Clearly, timing is everything in the world of terrorism/freedom fighting!!

And on a separate, related topic I do not recall any of the working class lads that went off to Spain in the 1930s to fight for the Spanish republic against Franco's fascists, getting arrested on their return even though the Communist Party were heavily involved in setting up the volunteer structure in the UK.

MI5 kept tabs on the volunteers but did not stop them going, nor were they arrested on their return as far as I know.

[Essex Lad]

May have something to do with the fact that when they came back Orwell and co didn't intend to use the skills they learned in Spain against their own country.

[andy at handiwork]

The trick is to do your foreign military helping for payment rather than ideology. Call yourself a mercenary and work for one of the shady 'security' firms offering military assistance / advice, using retired forces personnel, (you often see them, burly blokes in shades carrying heavy weaponry guarding some official in areas of conflict), doesnt usually get your collar felt when you return with your large tax-free earnings. Our own and the American, government often uses them so as to provide a fig leaf of deniability not available when ones legitimate military are used. Blackwater in Iraq is a good example. As for them not being a danger to ones own country on their return, there are many cases of ex-special forces people being recruited into the various little better than sedition-ist / domestic terrorist groups in the States.

[David Johnson]

First, as far as I am aware there were no plans or proof of these two using their skills against the UK.

Secondly the Communist party who played a key part in putting together the volunteer brigades in Spain had as its key objective the violent overthrow of capitalist states and the victory of the proletariat.

[Sam Slater]

I've read all of Orwell's essays but not his book, Homage to Catalonia. I'll have to one day.

Anyway, he wrote essays on going off to fight in Spain. He didn't once mention killing innocent civilians or blowing kids up at bus stops travelling to school.

I suppose everyone has their own interpretation of what a freedom fighter is, but for me a freedom fighter doesn't purposely target unarmed, innocent civilians. That's where it crosses over to terrorism in my view.

[Essex Lad]

David,
Yes, I was referring to Cameron's plans in general to arrest not especially these two.

However, it is a little odd that two men from the Midlands have been convicted for crimes that took place thousands of miles away and not something that is done here.

Seems an abuse of process to me...

[Arginald Valleywater]

Islam is the greatest danger to the British way of life since the Black Death. Hitler was a moderate compared to these lunatics.

[David Johnson]

"He didn't once mention killing innocent civilians or blowing kids up at bus stops travelling to school."

Maybe not, but the Communist involvement in the Spanish Civil War was partly funded by Stalinist Russia where Stalin launched the "Terror" during the thirties which killed millions of innocent Russians as Solzhenitsyn graphically describes in his great book, the Gulag Archipelago.

Enough one would have thought to condemn the volunteers as terrorists through the prism of 21st century British political parties such as the Tories.

"I suppose everyone has their own interpretation of what a freedom fighter is, but for me a freedom fighter doesn't purposely target unarmed, innocent civilians."

Western governments are much more media savvy than that They drop cluster bombs indiscriminately on towns and villages and describe the resulting deaths as "collateral damage" whilst trumpeting their victory in "Operation Iraqi Freedom".

[Sam Slater]

I think you're right, Sam.

Some people will use the 'One man's terrorist' line to defend terrorists in a surreptitious way.

We can all tell the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter by the victims they choose.

[max_tranmere]

"And on a separate, related topic I do not recall any of the working class lads that went off to Spain in the 1930s to fight for the Spanish republic against Franco's fascists, getting arrested on their return even though the Communist Party were heavily involved in setting up the volunteer structure in the UK."

Wasn't the writer George Orwell one of them? He went and fought in Spain, and later apparently got involved in the Home Guard during WW2, what was often called 'Dads Army' because he genuinely thought the Home Guard might be a movement that either had, or had the potential to have, some kind of subversive element to it and could maybe rise up against the unfairness in British society. That is genuinely true. I don't know if George Orwell was smoking something perculiar at the time, but that is what he thought!

I'm not sure how much of a substantial group of subversives existed in the UK aside from that. Our 'friends' the IRA in Northern Ireland sent some of their men to fight in Spain at the time aswell.