Iain Duncan Smith and foreign Big Issue sellers...
Re: Robches
Demands on housing? The Spanish housing market is dead as it is. And British retires cannot use the Spanish health system without insurance. Sorry, but you will have to do better.
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David Johnson
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Re: Robches
"Demands on housing? The Spanish housing market is dead as it is"
What goes around, comes around. There was an enormous price bubble prior to the recession in which immigrants buying houses played their part in forcing prices up.
"And British retires cannot use the Spanish health system without insurance."
THat still places demands on resources in terms of hospitals and doctors etc. etc.
"I am also reading that several cash strapped EU states, such as Spain, are closing their health services to other EU nationals."
And the links to these stories that I asked if you had?
Sorry, but you will have to do much, much better.
What goes around, comes around. There was an enormous price bubble prior to the recession in which immigrants buying houses played their part in forcing prices up.
"And British retires cannot use the Spanish health system without insurance."
THat still places demands on resources in terms of hospitals and doctors etc. etc.
"I am also reading that several cash strapped EU states, such as Spain, are closing their health services to other EU nationals."
And the links to these stories that I asked if you had?
Sorry, but you will have to do much, much better.
Re: Robches
David:
This is an epic fail. Occasionally you will have to admit that your views are mistaken. Go on, try it, I dare you.
This is an epic fail. Occasionally you will have to admit that your views are mistaken. Go on, try it, I dare you.
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David Johnson
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Re: Robches
Well if you think that I am going to say I am wrong, simply because you say I am wrong, then you haven't really understood anything I have ever posted on here.
I notice you do not challenge any of the points I make in the post you are referring to.
I notice you do not challenge any of the points I make in the post you are referring to.
Re: Robches
What points? They made no sense. Why would retirees have children using the schools? Building housing for expats brought a lot of jobs and prosperity for Spain. The retired expats do not drain the Spanish economy, they contribute to it. They do not take jobs, but buy goods and services. And they do not even have access to the health system. So no, I really can't see what point you are trying to make.
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David Johnson
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Re: Robches
This is what I stated earlier in the thread.
In Spain there are more retirees than people working there. But even if people are economically inactive they still make demands on housing, policing, schooling for relatives, health system etc etc. Just ask Nigel Farage about the demands placed on the UK by immigration!!!
Your reply
"Why would retirees have children using the schools? Building housing for expats brought a lot of jobs and prosperity for Spain. The retired expats do not drain the Spanish economy, they contribute to it. They do not take jobs, but buy goods and services. And they do not even have access to the health system"
First point - "I refer to economically inactive" This may be retired people or it may be people who have made or inherited a pile of money and decide to go over to Spain or it may be people who cannot find a job.
However even in the case of Spain, which is one of the key places for British retirement, if you pull up the figures from the end of 2006 for Spain using the following link
you will find that only a relatively small number are viewed as pensioners. 70%+ are under 65 years old. So I suspect I may be wrong in stating there are more retirees than others in Spain.
So even in Spain there are significant numbers of people either looking for work or in work who are UK citizens. Therefore my comments about housing and policing etc and education for their children apply in Spain across the board.
Secondly, re. your point about "I am also reading that several cash strapped EU states, such as Spain, are closing their health services to other EU nationals."
The fact that you cannot back that up with links despite a number of requests suggests to me that you are bullshitting. I suspect you have got mixed up with the plans to limit health care to illegal immigrants in Spain.
Thirdly re. your point about health insurance and therefore it does not have an effect on the Spanish healthcare system. I suspect you know bugger all about the Spanish healthcare system and British people's entitlement to it.
I suggest you check this link
In Spain there are more retirees than people working there. But even if people are economically inactive they still make demands on housing, policing, schooling for relatives, health system etc etc. Just ask Nigel Farage about the demands placed on the UK by immigration!!!
Your reply
"Why would retirees have children using the schools? Building housing for expats brought a lot of jobs and prosperity for Spain. The retired expats do not drain the Spanish economy, they contribute to it. They do not take jobs, but buy goods and services. And they do not even have access to the health system"
First point - "I refer to economically inactive" This may be retired people or it may be people who have made or inherited a pile of money and decide to go over to Spain or it may be people who cannot find a job.
However even in the case of Spain, which is one of the key places for British retirement, if you pull up the figures from the end of 2006 for Spain using the following link
you will find that only a relatively small number are viewed as pensioners. 70%+ are under 65 years old. So I suspect I may be wrong in stating there are more retirees than others in Spain.
So even in Spain there are significant numbers of people either looking for work or in work who are UK citizens. Therefore my comments about housing and policing etc and education for their children apply in Spain across the board.
Secondly, re. your point about "I am also reading that several cash strapped EU states, such as Spain, are closing their health services to other EU nationals."
The fact that you cannot back that up with links despite a number of requests suggests to me that you are bullshitting. I suspect you have got mixed up with the plans to limit health care to illegal immigrants in Spain.
Thirdly re. your point about health insurance and therefore it does not have an effect on the Spanish healthcare system. I suspect you know bugger all about the Spanish healthcare system and British people's entitlement to it.
I suggest you check this link
Re: Robches
David:
Your point about schooling for relatives kids makes no sense, it is the retirees we are talking about. They do not make demands on the host country, they pay the usual taxes, and put money into the economy. Most people can appreciate this, but I realise that you are special. British expats who retire to Spain are not really on the same level as Roma who come to Britain to sell the Big Issue and claim benefits.
As to the Spanish health system, I think the government website is out of date. From July, the Spanish will no longer accept S1 forms. They have run out of money you see, and so their welfare state has gone pop.
Your point about schooling for relatives kids makes no sense, it is the retirees we are talking about. They do not make demands on the host country, they pay the usual taxes, and put money into the economy. Most people can appreciate this, but I realise that you are special. British expats who retire to Spain are not really on the same level as Roma who come to Britain to sell the Big Issue and claim benefits.
As to the Spanish health system, I think the government website is out of date. From July, the Spanish will no longer accept S1 forms. They have run out of money you see, and so their welfare state has gone pop.
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David Johnson
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- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Robches
"Your point about schooling for relatives kids makes no sense, it is the retirees we are talking about."
It is the retirees that YOU are talking about. You brought up the subject of retirees into the mix when I said that that there were 2.2 million Brits living abroad in the EU. If you browse the link that I gave you in my previous post you will see that the number of retirees living in the EU is relatively small compared to the number of people looking for work or in work.
Secondly, in how many cases have entire families emigrated to Spain? Mum, Dad, kids and grandparents?
" They do not make demands on the host country,"
Again you are talking about retirees, a small group overall of UK people living in the EU. And even then you are wrong. Would you say that immigrants who come to Britain and buy or rent properties in large numbers in specific areas of the UK ARE NOT putting demands on the host country? Of course you wouldn't. You think all BRitish people in Spain live in houses on estates with barbed wire around them with non-Brits keep out signs everywhere? Of course not, many Brits live in attractive destinations renting or buying property and have forced up prices as part of the property price bubble in those areas prior to the recession. Areas which locals would want to live in
" British expats who retire to Spain are not really on the same level as Roma who come to Britain to sell the Big Issue and claim benefits."
I think you have been listening to too much Nigel Farage. Have I said that UK people working abroad are all like Roma? Roma represent a very, very, very small proportion of the immigrants to this country. And survey after survey has shown that EU immigrants into the UK on average pay more that they take out, certainly when compared to the indigenous British population. Why can't you accept that? I know. It just doesn't fit with your Little ENglander prejudice does it?
"As to the Spanish health system, I think the government website is out of date. From July, the Spanish will no longer accept S1 forms. They have run out of money you see, and so their welfare state has gone pop"
Have you read the link I provided? It references the change that the Telegraph refers to. Have you read your own link? Despite the Telegraph headline, the article makes it clear that people of retirement age will still get free healthcare as will people who are working in Spain. The change refers to eearly retirees And as for the restrictions on UK citizens returning to the UK experiencing difficulties getting treatment, ask Cameron. He is the toerag that introduced the measure.
I will leave you to your Little England world now where the British emigrant is such a better class of chap or chapess than those immigrant wallahs that come over here
It is the retirees that YOU are talking about. You brought up the subject of retirees into the mix when I said that that there were 2.2 million Brits living abroad in the EU. If you browse the link that I gave you in my previous post you will see that the number of retirees living in the EU is relatively small compared to the number of people looking for work or in work.
Secondly, in how many cases have entire families emigrated to Spain? Mum, Dad, kids and grandparents?
" They do not make demands on the host country,"
Again you are talking about retirees, a small group overall of UK people living in the EU. And even then you are wrong. Would you say that immigrants who come to Britain and buy or rent properties in large numbers in specific areas of the UK ARE NOT putting demands on the host country? Of course you wouldn't. You think all BRitish people in Spain live in houses on estates with barbed wire around them with non-Brits keep out signs everywhere? Of course not, many Brits live in attractive destinations renting or buying property and have forced up prices as part of the property price bubble in those areas prior to the recession. Areas which locals would want to live in
" British expats who retire to Spain are not really on the same level as Roma who come to Britain to sell the Big Issue and claim benefits."
I think you have been listening to too much Nigel Farage. Have I said that UK people working abroad are all like Roma? Roma represent a very, very, very small proportion of the immigrants to this country. And survey after survey has shown that EU immigrants into the UK on average pay more that they take out, certainly when compared to the indigenous British population. Why can't you accept that? I know. It just doesn't fit with your Little ENglander prejudice does it?
"As to the Spanish health system, I think the government website is out of date. From July, the Spanish will no longer accept S1 forms. They have run out of money you see, and so their welfare state has gone pop"
Have you read the link I provided? It references the change that the Telegraph refers to. Have you read your own link? Despite the Telegraph headline, the article makes it clear that people of retirement age will still get free healthcare as will people who are working in Spain. The change refers to eearly retirees And as for the restrictions on UK citizens returning to the UK experiencing difficulties getting treatment, ask Cameron. He is the toerag that introduced the measure.
I will leave you to your Little England world now where the British emigrant is such a better class of chap or chapess than those immigrant wallahs that come over here
Re: Robches
David:
With regard to the S1 forms, they will cease to be valid when they expire, hence British expats in Spain will need health insurance.
As to the rest, I am sure that the real estate agents, hotel owners. restaurant proprietors, golf course companies etc in Spain just wish all those damned British retirees would clear off and make space for Roma selling the Big Issue, who contribute so very much to the richness and diversity of society.
By the way, didn't you know that anyone who uses the clich? Little Englander loses? It's the new Godwin's Law, let's call it Johnson's Law in your honour. Any more tired clich?s you'd like to lob over?
With regard to the S1 forms, they will cease to be valid when they expire, hence British expats in Spain will need health insurance.
As to the rest, I am sure that the real estate agents, hotel owners. restaurant proprietors, golf course companies etc in Spain just wish all those damned British retirees would clear off and make space for Roma selling the Big Issue, who contribute so very much to the richness and diversity of society.
By the way, didn't you know that anyone who uses the clich? Little Englander loses? It's the new Godwin's Law, let's call it Johnson's Law in your honour. Any more tired clich?s you'd like to lob over?
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David Johnson
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- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Robches
"With regard to the S1 forms, they will cease to be valid when they expire, hence British expats in Spain will need health insurance."
Again you show little sign of having a clue what you are talking about. I will put it in big letters for you.
THIS ONLY APPLIES TO RESIDUAL S1 FORMS FOR EARLY RETIREES. IT DOES NOT COVER EXPATS IN WORK OR PEOPLE OF PENSIONABLE AGE.
IF YOU HAD MADE ANY EFFORT AT ALL TO CORRECT YOUR MISTAKE YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT THE LINK I PROVIDED TAKES YOU TO THIS PAGE.
IF YOU STILL CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS POINT ASK A ROMA TO HELP YOU.
"As to the rest, I am sure that the real estate agents, hotel owners. restaurant proprietors, golf course companies etc in Spain just wish all those damned British retirees would clear off "
Well given on average that EU immigrants pay more than they take out of the system compared to the indigenous British people, I am sure that using your argument you will be delighted by more and more EU immigrants coming into the country. Thank you very much for supporting my arguments. You are so, so kind.
"nd make space for Roma selling the Big Issue, who contribute so very much to the richness and diversity of society."
Again in caps because you are really, really, really struggling to get the point. ROMA ARE A VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY SMALL PART OF THE EU MIGRATION INTO THE UK. SO IT IS A BIT LIKE ME BEING AGAINST BRITISH IMMIGRATION TO SPAIN BECAUSE A VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY SMALL PART OF THEM ARE CRIMINALS.
"y the way, didn't you know that anyone who uses the clich? Little Englander loses? It's the new Godwin's Law, let's call it Johnson's Law in your honour. Any more tired clich?s you'd like to lob over?"
Well Little Englander suits you perfectly.
Word of advice, Robches
1. First understand the arguments. You clearly are clueless.
2. When people try to help by providing links which correct that understanding, read them.
3. Then just possibly you can be condescending.
End of discussion from my point of view. I will leave you to have the final misinformed, prejudiced piece of bullshit.
Again you show little sign of having a clue what you are talking about. I will put it in big letters for you.
THIS ONLY APPLIES TO RESIDUAL S1 FORMS FOR EARLY RETIREES. IT DOES NOT COVER EXPATS IN WORK OR PEOPLE OF PENSIONABLE AGE.
IF YOU HAD MADE ANY EFFORT AT ALL TO CORRECT YOUR MISTAKE YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT THE LINK I PROVIDED TAKES YOU TO THIS PAGE.
IF YOU STILL CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS POINT ASK A ROMA TO HELP YOU.
"As to the rest, I am sure that the real estate agents, hotel owners. restaurant proprietors, golf course companies etc in Spain just wish all those damned British retirees would clear off "
Well given on average that EU immigrants pay more than they take out of the system compared to the indigenous British people, I am sure that using your argument you will be delighted by more and more EU immigrants coming into the country. Thank you very much for supporting my arguments. You are so, so kind.
"nd make space for Roma selling the Big Issue, who contribute so very much to the richness and diversity of society."
Again in caps because you are really, really, really struggling to get the point. ROMA ARE A VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY SMALL PART OF THE EU MIGRATION INTO THE UK. SO IT IS A BIT LIKE ME BEING AGAINST BRITISH IMMIGRATION TO SPAIN BECAUSE A VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY SMALL PART OF THEM ARE CRIMINALS.
"y the way, didn't you know that anyone who uses the clich? Little Englander loses? It's the new Godwin's Law, let's call it Johnson's Law in your honour. Any more tired clich?s you'd like to lob over?"
Well Little Englander suits you perfectly.
Word of advice, Robches
1. First understand the arguments. You clearly are clueless.
2. When people try to help by providing links which correct that understanding, read them.
3. Then just possibly you can be condescending.
End of discussion from my point of view. I will leave you to have the final misinformed, prejudiced piece of bullshit.