The End of Cleggie?

[Essex Lad]

cockneygeezer2009 wrote:

> Makes me laugh when LD people say Vince Cable should take over.
> Baldies don't win elections in Britain. Remember Ming Campbell.
> They soon got rid of him. Can anyone name the last baldie who
> won an election? Anyone who wants to take over as from Clegg as
> LD leader is barmy.
>
I don't think even with Cable as leader the Lib Dems would expect to win the next General Election.

Ming Campbell went because of his appalling performances at Question Time not because he was bald.

Assuming you mean General Elections (there are plenty of bald MPs who have won elections) to be PM ? Attlee and in America Eisenhower.

[David Johnson]

They pledged to vote against an increase in fees.

Typically, fees have been tripled.

Is this breaking a pledge or not?

[Sam Slater]

What David knows, but being disingenuous as he is he never says, there's a difference between a party breaking it's pledges when in a majority government and a small party that is in coalition where there has to be give and take.

[David Johnson]

"Do you think increasing fees from ?3000 to an average of nearly ?9000 a year is a fairer system? In what ways is it fairer exactly? "

"Not really, because as usual you are only presenting the part of the story that suits your political agenda. They pledged to vote against an increase in fees AND pressure the government to produce a fairer option"

No, I am not presenting the part of the story that suits my political agenda.

This report gives some examples of the huge sums, graduates who actually get a reasonable job have to repay. It is not fair at all as far as I can see.



" As it happened because they ended up in Government they were able to actually get a fairer version but yes, at the expense of higher fees."

How can it be a "fairer version" if students have to pay ?27K for three years tuition fees as opposed to ?9K.

" Are you naive enough to think that as the minor party of a coalition they would have had the same fees and still got the fairer version ?"

You may be aware that as a prerequisite for joining a coalition the Lib Dems and the Tories worked out an agreed agenda of do's and don'ts in power. The Lib Dems list did not include a freezing of student fees but it did include a number of other measures that the Lib Dems were in favour of.

In short they could have made an increase in student fees which they had pledged to avoid a "redline" with regard to supporting the Tories. They did not and stabbed the students in the back.

[David Johnson]

"What David knows, but being disingenuous as he is he never says, there's a difference between a party breaking it's pledges when in a majority government and a small party that is in coalition where there has to be give and take."

1. No-one forced the Lib Dems into coalition with the Tories. It was their choice.

2. They could have opted for a confidence and supply arrangement instead but that would not have put the Lib Dems in power. However they were so desperate to get into power for the first time in their history they chose to form a coalition with a party with which they had virtually nothing in common.

3. A coalition agreement was made between the Lib Dems and the Tories as part of the negotiations re. a coalition and their joint legislation plans. There was no reference to student fees in that coalition agreement. They could have made it a red line. Instead they preferred to stab the students in the back over a measure which was one of the three or four key measures in their manifesto.

[Sam Slater]

David's hanging on to the student fees pledge for dear life.

As if in 2010 that sort of pledge was going to turn the country around what with the economy in dire straights both here and in Europe.

And I was a student at the time. I realised there were bigger issues.

Maybe Clegg is a convenient diversion from Ed Miliband and that after 4 years of austerity from a Tory-led government, most people still don't trust Labour under his stewardship. I want to see Labour shake things up. Bring the right Miliband in and get people back on side. Ed can't do it. Like it or not, in a media-led world of 24 hour news and social networking, leaders need charisma as well as political nouse. Ed's brother has it in spades. Ed doesn't.

Hell, the posh lad can't even down a bacon sarnie without having a face like someone had just shown him pictures of his missus noshing off Gordon Brown. Ed's good politician......just not a leader.

[David Johnson]

This is a content-free post from you on the subject of the thread.

1. Did Clegg stab the students in the back? Yes.

2. "As if in 2010 that sort of pledge was going to turn the country around what with the economy in dire straights both here and in Europe."

Clegg made the pledge in 2010. Had he not noticed that there had been a recession going on since 2008 in Britain and Europe? Tragic that no-one mentioned it to him. "Nick, there is a recession".

3. "And I was a student at the time. I realised there were bigger issues."

Yep, as I recall, it was the same with 99% of all students. I must have imagined all those student demonstrations about the tripling of fees, the hanging of Clegg in effigy. All completely misguided according to you.

4. "Maybe Clegg is a convenient diversion from Ed Miliband"

No. It is a thread about Clegg. As a Clegg lovie I realise you might find it uncomfortable. What ever happened to that Clegg quote that you slavishly had in all your messages for years?

Unlike you, the electorate realises Cleggie has been a disaster and the Lib Dem polling in the recent elections shows that.

[cockneygeezer2009]

"Assuming you mean General Elections (there are plenty of bald MPs who have won elections) to be PM ? Attlee and in America Eisenhower."

Long time ago. A very long time ago. All recent winning Party leaders in Britain and America have had a decent head of hair.

"I don't think even with Cable as leader the Lib Dems would expect to win the next General Election."

Agreed. Cable as leader the Lib Dems wouldn't make the LD's more popular with voters either.