Amen to that.

[RaymondT]

Sam Slater wrote:

> Except the analogy doesn't really work of immigrant communities
> that now live here. They're not guests like guests visiting
> someone's house. They're now roommates, paying their proportion
> of the rent, gas, electric and water.
>

It is irrelevant whether they are paying their way or not. If you make a decision to move to another country then you should respect and abide by the ways of the people of that country, not come and look to take over. If you want everything to be as it is in your own country then just stay in your own country.

If I allowed someone into my home, it wouldn't matter if they were to pay their share of the bills or not, I would still expect them to abide by my house rules, to respect me, my family and my house, not to take over and make me feel uncomfortable in my own home.

[David Johnson]

Fair enough.

But you were making your comments in response to Cunty's thread entitled Too many Muslims in the country.

And you were responding to a specific section of Cunty's post on the topic. This is your remark

Cuntybollocks wrote:

> Yep, that's what it all boils down to.
>
> To many here now and breeding like rabbits, their ghettos are
> getting bigger and bigger.
>
> Allah this, halal that. Offended at this that and the other.
>
> Not happy here in Britain?. Piss off to a muslim country and
> live there.

I know an awful lot of people who share your thoughts (on Muslims presumably) Cunty, none of them are racist or have anything against anyone of any colour or culture but they have just had enough of people in this country being forced to change their ways and having to walk on tip toes and frightened to open their mouths in public.

[Sam Slater]

But most Muslims that live here now are 2nd and 3rd generation Muslims. I have friends who were born here, as were their parents. It's not them 'moving in to your home'. If they're born here, then this country is as much their's as your's.

And it's not 'your rules'. It's 'our' rules. We decide as a society and Muslims are part of it.

If you want to argue we go too far out of our way to accommodate certain minorities over other minorities or even the majority then that would be a sensible debate. But to imply Muslims have no say, and akin to lodgers living in your house is quite another and the analogy isn't really the best.

[David Johnson]

Surely all you are doing is describing the difference between western democracies that are prepared to accept differences in culture and belief from theocracies or governments with very strict religious rules.

What's the alternative:

1. You get the home countries for immigrants to accept democratic governments and pluralistic approaches. Neither of us are going to hold our breath over that one.

2. You demand before immigrants come from a specific country, British businessmen are allowed to setup a strip club as a token of good faith.

If people come here and want to adhere to strict religious practices and live a culture that owes more to their homeland, then as far as I am concerned I don't have a problem unless they try to force me to adhere to a similar approach.

That is why I do think that if the RSPCA has an evidential based belief that halal slaughter without pre-stunning causes more suffering and is illegal outside religious use namely Jewish and Halal, than it should be made illegal for all. Having said that I do not feel that strongly about it because I think of stunning as more of an extra failsafe for inexperienced operators as much as anything else.

However, I am always amazed at the British meateaters who express condemnation of how animals are slaughtered and don't appear to give a flying fuck about how the same animals live their lives in a dreadful, cruel environment. I eat meat and I know I am a hypocrite about the matter. Many do not appear to know that they are hypocrites too.

[Cuntybollocks]

None whatsoever David.

As others have pointed out you question means fuck all.

I just don't want them here in the numbers that are in the country already. Pure and simple.

The more there are, the more leverage they have to push for what THEY want. Little by little it is happening.

See below for an example.

[David Johnson]

You still don't get it, do you?

"As others have pointed out you question means fuck all."

It means fuck all to you because you don't get it.

The point to get is as follows:

1. My own personal experience suggests that the people I know who have had virtually no contact with Muslims either at home, at work or on social terms tend to be the most hostile to the impact of Muslims. I think it is no accident that no-one on this thread has described a detrimental impact on the personal lives either at home or at work. Apart from you not being able to get your bacon baps from quite so many outlets.

2. So where do people get their negative impression of Muslims from? The media. What they read in the papers.

3. What is wrong with that? Well whether you read the Daily Mail or the Guardian it makes no difference. Largely they are full of bad news. If a newspaper concentrated on good news like Muslim groups making joint statements with Archbishops condemning the killing of Lee Rigby or Muslims complaining that the sacking of canteen ladies for serving halal food is an overreaction and they should be reinstated, the newspaper would be finished within a week.

4. So people like you base yourself on negative story after negative story rather than any personal experiences.

5. Classic example. You provide a link to some legal guidance for solicitors who are asked to produce sharia compliant wills for Muslims who reguest them.

Does this apply to you Cunty? No.

Does this apply to anyone in your family? No.

Are the solicitors expected to follow them? No.

Do they represent legal advice? No

Do they necessarily provide a defence to complaints of misconduct or of inadequate professional service? No

Will solicitors and accountants still work to ensure that non-Muslim wives get bugger all from their non-Muslim husband? Yes if they want to.

Go out and live a bit, Cunty. Confront your demons. Talk to Muslims, You might even like some of them!!!!!

[Essex Lad]

David Johnson wrote:
;''
> If people come here and want to adhere to strict religious
> practices and live a culture that owes more to their homeland,
> then as far as I am concerned I don't have a problem unless
> they try to force me to adhere to a similar approach.

The problem is that some do. Witness the Muslim patrols in east London shouting at women in short skirts to get out of a "Muslim area" and forcibly taking legally bought alcohol off them. It's only a small example but it happened and was serious enough for three of them to be jailed.

You often talk about Brits living abroad: imagine the outcry in Barcelona if some of the retired Brits on the Costa del Crime began roaming the streets telling the local Spaniards to get out of a "British area" and forcibly removing their paella. Yet that is what is happening in east London.


> However, I am always amazed at the British meateaters who
> express condemnation of how animals are slaughtered and don't
> appear to give a flying fuck about how the same animals live
> their lives in a dreadful, cruel environment. I eat meat and I
> know I am a hypocrite about the matter. Many do not appear to
> know that they are hypocrites too.

I did make the point that anyone who eats meat should be aware that most of the animals are bred to be eaten or made into shoes or jackets. I'm probably going to get a load of abuse but I don't really care how the animal ends up on my plate. They taste delicious and that's all that concerns me...

[David Johnson]

"The problem is that some do. Witness the Muslim patrols in east London shouting at women in short skirts to get out of a "Muslim area" and forcibly taking legally bought alcohol off them. It's only a small example but it happened and was serious enough for three of them to be jailed."

This is an isolated incident and they were jailed. The number of attacks on Muslims by white non Muslims far outweighs any attacks the other way.


"You often talk about Brits living abroad: imagine the outcry in Barcelona if some of the retired Brits on the Costa del Crime began roaming the streets telling the local Spaniards to get out of a "British area" and forcibly removing their paella. Yet that is what is happening in east London."

This is a banal analogy. Obviously there is much more in common between the attitudes of Spanish and British people based on their growing up in Western democracies. Even given that you are no doubt aware that the behaviour of many British tourists in Spanish resorts with drunkenness and alcohol fuelled violence is treated with complete contempt by the vast majority of Spanish people.

[Essex Lad]

David Johnson wrote:

> "The problem is that some do. Witness the Muslim patrols in
> east London shouting at women in short skirts to get out of a
> "Muslim area" and forcibly taking legally bought alcohol off
> them. It's only a small example but it happened and was serious
> enough for three of them to be jailed."
>
> This is an isolated incident and they were jailed. The number
> of attacks on Muslims by white non Muslims far outweighs any
> attacks the other way.

You will no doubt provide figures from The Guardian to back that up but it could also be because attacks by Muslims on non-Muslims are rarely or never recorded as racially motivated.
>
>
> "You often talk about Brits living abroad: imagine the outcry
> in Barcelona if some of the retired Brits on the Costa del
> Crime began roaming the streets telling the local Spaniards to
> get out of a "British area" and forcibly removing their paella.
> Yet that is what is happening in east London."
>
> This is a banal analogy. Obviously there is much more in
> common between the attitudes of Spanish and British people
> based on their growing up in Western democracies.

I think you'll find that the three jailed members of the Muslim Patrol all grew up in a western democracy.

Even given
> that you are no doubt aware that the behaviour of many British
> tourists in Spanish resorts with drunkenness and alcohol
> fuelled violence is treated with complete contempt by the vast
> majority of Spanish people.

The behaviour of Muslim louts is treated with complete contempt by the vast majority of British people ? doesn't seem to have much effect on them though, does it? Come 11 November they'll still be there calling British soldiers murderers and burning poppies.

[David Johnson]

"
"You will no doubt provide figures from The Guardian to back that up but it could also be because attacks by Muslims on non-Muslims are rarely or never recorded as racially motivated"

Well given the illegal invasion of Iraq resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath it is surprising that there haven't been more attacks.

"I think you'll find that the three jailed members of the Muslim Patrol all grew up in a western democracy."

Well religious idiocy trumps upbringing for the weak minded, stupid and misguided. Even given that surprising that there have not been more attacks.

"The behaviour of Muslim louts is treated with complete contempt by the vast majority of British people ? doesn't seem to have much effect on them though, does it?"

Yes and the number of Brits getting completely off their head in Ibiza and Magaluf etc. etc. hasn't changed much either

Funny that.

Good evening.