I don't doubt that you are correct that an Old Boys' Network does operate in Westminster as in the City but they tend not to admit outsiders so it's unlikely that either Cyril Smith or Ted Heath would have been welcomed by a public school clique.
Yes, as you say, a claim was made. It doesn't mean that there is a scintilla of truth to it, though.
Cyril, the new Jimmy...
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
EssexLad
I suppose we'll never know for sure, now that Ted Heath is deceased. If alive he would not be forthcoming with the facts either though, I am sure. I always wondered how the old boys clique and the public school mafia so prominent in the Tory party, particularly years ago, were willing to elect people one after the other as leader when they were NOT from that background. Thatcher and Heath were from ordinary working class backgrounds. Especially Thatcher: she was working class AND a woman - in the era when it was unheard of to have female leaders.
Re: Cyril, the new Jimmy...
Hang on a minute!
If my post looks even slightly like l am defending Cyril Smith then your reading t wrong or l inadvertently used some code words that only you understood.
Let me make it plain, l would never defend this man at all.
If my post looks even slightly like l am defending Cyril Smith then your reading t wrong or l inadvertently used some code words that only you understood.
Let me make it plain, l would never defend this man at all.
Max T
max_tranmere wrote:
I always wondered how the old boys
> clique and the public school mafia so prominent in the Tory
> party, particularly years ago, were willing to elect people one
> after the other as leader when they were NOT from that
> background. Thatcher and Heath were from ordinary working class
> backgrounds. Especially Thatcher: she was working class AND a
> woman - in the era when it was unheard of to have female
> leaders.
They weren't for the most part from wildly different backgrounds.
No idea where you get the idea that Margaret Thatcher was working class: she was middle class to her fingertips. Her father was a small business owner, an alderman and the mayor of Grantham.
Ted Heath was not working class either. The only working class Tory leader was John Major and even then his parents owned a business.
The last ten Tory leaders:
Cameron: Eton and Oxford
Howard (n? Hecht): Llanelli Boys' Grammar School and Cambridge
Duncan Smith: --- ----
Hague: Ripon Grammar School, Wath Grammar School, Oxford
Major: --- ---
Thatcher: Kesteven and Grantham Girls' School (scholarship), Oxford
Heath: Chatham House Grammar School, Oxford
Douglas-Home: Eton, Oxford
Macmillan: Eton, Oxford
Eden: Eton, Oxford
Of the last 10 Tory leaders, 8 were educated at Oxbridge and four went to Eton so they clearly didn't elect "people one after the other as leader when they were NOT from that background".
I always wondered how the old boys
> clique and the public school mafia so prominent in the Tory
> party, particularly years ago, were willing to elect people one
> after the other as leader when they were NOT from that
> background. Thatcher and Heath were from ordinary working class
> backgrounds. Especially Thatcher: she was working class AND a
> woman - in the era when it was unheard of to have female
> leaders.
They weren't for the most part from wildly different backgrounds.
No idea where you get the idea that Margaret Thatcher was working class: she was middle class to her fingertips. Her father was a small business owner, an alderman and the mayor of Grantham.
Ted Heath was not working class either. The only working class Tory leader was John Major and even then his parents owned a business.
The last ten Tory leaders:
Cameron: Eton and Oxford
Howard (n? Hecht): Llanelli Boys' Grammar School and Cambridge
Duncan Smith: --- ----
Hague: Ripon Grammar School, Wath Grammar School, Oxford
Major: --- ---
Thatcher: Kesteven and Grantham Girls' School (scholarship), Oxford
Heath: Chatham House Grammar School, Oxford
Douglas-Home: Eton, Oxford
Macmillan: Eton, Oxford
Eden: Eton, Oxford
Of the last 10 Tory leaders, 8 were educated at Oxbridge and four went to Eton so they clearly didn't elect "people one after the other as leader when they were NOT from that background".
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Max T
By the 'one after the other as leader when they were NOT from that background' I was just referring to Ted and Maggie. I've always viewed them as ordinary people, Ted Heath's dad was "a carpenter and builder" (I've just looked it up on Wikpedia, but I was aware he was from an ordinary background I just didn't know specifically what his old man did) and Thatcher's father was a greengrocer. Most Tory leaders are distantly related to royalty and come from the land-gentry.
Re: Max T
Essex Lad wrote:
>
> Of the last 10 Tory leaders, 8 were educated at Oxbridge and
> four went to Eton so they clearly didn't elect "people one
> after the other as leader when they were NOT from that
> background".
And in any case until Heath Tory leaders were not elected, they were chosen by the "magic circle".
>
> Of the last 10 Tory leaders, 8 were educated at Oxbridge and
> four went to Eton so they clearly didn't elect "people one
> after the other as leader when they were NOT from that
> background".
And in any case until Heath Tory leaders were not elected, they were chosen by the "magic circle".
Re: Cyril, the new Jimmy...
Wasn't the Queen part of the "magic circle" that picked Sir Alec Douglas Home?
Talk about ruling by divine right!
Talk about ruling by divine right!
Re: Cyril, the new Jimmy...
Sixth paragraph in this article.
More backgroumd here:-
More backgroumd here:-
Re: Cyril, the new Jimmy...
The Breitbart article is complete nonsense. If the Queen picked the Prime Minister, there would be a constitutional crisis that would make the Glorious Revolution seem like a tea party.
The role of the Sovereign in the enactment of legislation is today purely formal, although the Queen has the right ?to be consulted, to encourage and to warn? her ministers via regular audiences with the Prime Minister.
The Queen's role in Parliament is:
Assenting to Bills passed by Parliament, on the advice of Ministers;
Giving audiences to ministers, at which Her Majesty may be consulted, encourage and warn;
Opening each new session of Parliament;
Proroguing or dissolving Parliament before a general election.
Not picking a Tory PM.
The wikipedia one says that Macmillan recommended Home but by this passage:
Having ruled himself out of the race when the news of Macmillan's illness broke, Home angered at least two of his cabinet colleagues by changing his mind.[3] Macmillan quickly came to the view that Home would be the best choice as his successor, and gave him valuable behind-the-scenes backing. He let it be known that if he recovered he would be willing to serve as a member of a Home cabinet.[100] He had earlier favoured Hailsham, but changed his mind when he learned from the British ambassador to the US that the Kennedy administration was uneasy at the prospect of Hailsham as Prime Minister
you could argue that the Americans picked Lord Home.
The role of the Sovereign in the enactment of legislation is today purely formal, although the Queen has the right ?to be consulted, to encourage and to warn? her ministers via regular audiences with the Prime Minister.
The Queen's role in Parliament is:
Assenting to Bills passed by Parliament, on the advice of Ministers;
Giving audiences to ministers, at which Her Majesty may be consulted, encourage and warn;
Opening each new session of Parliament;
Proroguing or dissolving Parliament before a general election.
Not picking a Tory PM.
The wikipedia one says that Macmillan recommended Home but by this passage:
Having ruled himself out of the race when the news of Macmillan's illness broke, Home angered at least two of his cabinet colleagues by changing his mind.[3] Macmillan quickly came to the view that Home would be the best choice as his successor, and gave him valuable behind-the-scenes backing. He let it be known that if he recovered he would be willing to serve as a member of a Home cabinet.[100] He had earlier favoured Hailsham, but changed his mind when he learned from the British ambassador to the US that the Kennedy administration was uneasy at the prospect of Hailsham as Prime Minister
you could argue that the Americans picked Lord Home.