Salmond in the shit?

[fatmick]

In the same week that Cameron makes a sterile and non engaging visit to Aberdeen to declare that The Union is one of the planets Top 10 countries....The biggest foodbank in Scotland runs out of food....the Union is working, BUT only for some, and not for Scotland>>>>if we are so rich and so well placed, why are we facing ?25billion more cuts....that Labour would also make!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[David Johnson]

"The biggest foodbank in Scotland runs out of food....the Union is working, BUT only for some, and not for Scotland>>>>if we are so rich and so well placed, why are we facing ?25billion more cuts....that Labour would also make!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I repeat the Scottish National Party has been the largest party in Scotland since 2007 and had an overall majority since 2011. So in all that time what has the SNP done for "social justice"?

Why have they not introduced the income tax increases they could have in order to help fund an antidote to some of the coalition cuts? Mick you are just like the senior SNP people. You come out with all the clich?s but when it comes down to detail you don't appear to have a clue. Anybody who disagrees you just ignore.

This is where you say I am not voting for the SNP but for Scotland. Well Scotland needs a political party to push through these measures of "social justice" and it sure as hell hasn't got one in the form of the SNP. The SNP has had a huge range of powers and done very little to use them.

How can the SNP who will be the party negotiating with the UK post a Yes vote possibly be in favour of a currency union?

DO you actually know how a currency union will work, Mick?

I will tell you. For instance, Mark Carney's speech which Salmond and Sturgeon praise to the roof stated "Those risks (of a currency union) have been demonstrated clearly in the euro area over recent years, with sovereign debt crises,
financial fragmentation and large divergences in economic performance. The euro area is now beginning to
rectify its institutional shortcomings, but further, very significant steps must be taken to expand the sharing of
risks and pooling of fiscal resources. In short, a durable, successful currency union requires some ceding of
national sovereignty (i.e. national sovereignty on the part of "independent" Scotland)

Wake up Mick. Salmond is terrified of true independence which is why he is so keen on a currency union where the remainder of the UK will bale him out if necessary. THat is why he is prepared to give up large chunks of the newly "independent" Scotland's sovereignty to the UK. Some independence! Some social justice when independence Yes in 2014 results in a currency union with the Tories!

Why do you think that is Mick? Ever thought about that? Well maybe you haven't read the leaked John Swinney document where he tells senior SNP members that the picture for an independent Scotland is much, much less rosy than he has been telling you ad infinitum



At least with Nick Clegg's lies, voters who voted for the Lib Dems in 2010 can think "Fuck him, I'm not going to vote the same way in 2015"

In your case, swallow Salmond's bucketful of lies and there is no way back. You are fucked good and proper.

[Sam Slater]

Mick.......as an Englishman it is completely none of my business if Scottish people want independence, right? We can both agree on this.

However, a currency share with Scotland affects all of us. Given this, I feel it becomes my business; it becomes a decision English, Welsh and Northern Irish should all decide on.

Do you agree?

[fatmick]

Argie, of course I agree with your point. It is absolutely your business who you to share a currency with.

[David Johnson]

And if any of the main Westminster parties reneged on this statement that there will be no currency union with Scotland, I would expect a referendum on that issue in the same way as I would expect a referendum if the Westminster government wanted to join the euro.

And with that in mind I would be gobsmacked if the rUK voted to have a currency union with a recently independent Scotland.

And this makes it even more bizarre that Salmond has refused to explain to the Scottish electorate what the plan b is. Vote Yes, vote leap in the dark.

[Sam Slater]

I'm Sam!

Good to hear. So Salmond is either going to have to come up with a plan b, sharpish, or butter up the English, Welsh and Northern Irish electorate and convince us all it's a good idea.

At the moment he just seems to think it's about persuading the MPs in Westminster.

[Sam Slater]

As far as I'm concerned the pound is the currency of the UK. If you leave the UK, you leave the Pound unless the other countries in that zone all agree to share it.

I'm guessing that Salmond and his supporters are of the view they've contributed their share into the currency over the years as we have. That point has some merit.....but if it's a case of picking and choosing what you want to take from a joint adventure, then doesn't the rest of Britain have a right to a pick and choose too? Scottish oil, for instance? It's in Scottish waters, but I'm sure English and Welsh people worked on mapping the sea floor, designing and building the rigs and I'm sure the influence of London helped in trading that oil internationally. Haven't all nations in the UK contributed in 'Scottish' oil?

Lets give them the Pound for a bigger share of the oil. What percentage of the UK is Scottish? About 1 in 10 people? So they get 10% of the oil? Ok.....that's a little extreme. We'll just take 50% and we'll prop up their currency in return. You can't say fairer than that !happy!

[David Johnson]

"As far as I'm concerned the pound is the currency of the UK. If you leave the UK, you leave the Pound unless the other countries in that zone all agree to share it."

I'm not sure if this is the case in reality. For example, Panama started using the US dollar unilaterally without getting any agreement with the U.S.A.

I suspect this is the Salmond Plan B which the entire SNP have been refusing to discuss i.e. they print pounds - referred to as sterlingisation in the jargon.

In that scenario, they reduce their transaction costs in terms of their trading with the rest of the UK which represents 70% of Scotland's exports. The transaction costs of not taking the pound are far higher for Scotland than they are for the UK relatively speaking because so much of Scottish trading is with the rest of the UK.

However they give up completely their monetary policy to whatever the Bank of England decides in terms of interest rates, money supply etc. And as a new country they would have to pay more for borrowing etc. on the markets.

Of course all of this is irrelevant when an independent Scotland applies to join the EU as a new member state. Salmond and Sturgeon have been lying to the Scottish electorate by saying that the EU cannot force any member state to take the euro. Sturgeon gives the case of Sweden as an example as well as Croatia that joined last year.

These are totally misleading. No country has joined the EU since the late nineties without taking the euro. In the case of Croatia they are expected to use the euro after a period of two or three years.

Some may say well all political parties lie to get what they want but at least in an election you can undertake never to vote again for a party which gets into government and does the opposite of their manifesto. In the case of the SNP and independence, get conned and you are stuck with your decision for good.

[max_tranmere]

People assume that an independent Scotland will sort of be Alex Salmond's independent Scotland - he's pushing for it and he's saying what will happen if and when Scotland becomes it's own country. I wonder how many people have considered that once the country is independent people will then look at the SNP government and will judge them solely on how they run the economy, healthcare, pensions, and all the other things people judge their leaders on. It will be that, rather than the fact they oversaw independence. The SNP government would have been wanted as they proposed independence and got it through, the people would not have considered whether Salmond's firm would be good at managing the things I've just listed. There's a good chance the SNP will run the nation adequately at best, poorly most likely, and people will start criticising them in the 5 years following independence about how they're not a good government at all. It will be then that people will start saying "was it right to become independent? This lot are rubbish at ruling us, perhaps we should have stayed part of the union and had Westminster running us".

The SNP will most likely be booted out of office 5 years after independence. Alex Salmond will then spend the next few years trading off the contacts he made whilst in office in order to make as many millions for himself as he can, like all ex-politicians do. From then on Scotland will likely have a Labour government, I can't think of any other party they will likely vote for in large numbers.

The three main Westminster parties will presumably have separate set-ups north of the border. We presently have the three main parties up there with 'Scottish' as a pre-fix to their names - 'Scottish Liberal Democrats' and so on. There will have to be a lot more separation after independence, Scottish Labour will have to be much more autonomous, as will the other two. They couldn't just have a party leader in Scotland, who has a boss (the overall party leader) in London who they report to. So there will be almost separate bits of the main three parties in Scotland, and it is likely Labour will win 5 years after independence. By then people will be regretting breaking away I am sure, but will not be able to do anything about it.

[Sam Slater]

I know they can use the pound without our permission. I meant some formal, currency share where we actually 'prop their currency up' so to speak.

Salmond used to be a supporter of the Euro. I'm guessing he wants to take Scotland into the Euro in the long-term......although at the moment he'd not want to give the electorate that impression.