Bob Singleton wrote:
> Fergie retired because he could see that a whole new team was
> required
Some interesting words from Ferguson when he announced his retirement:
"The squad I leave behind makes me confident of Manchester United's continued success and my successor is sure to take over a club in the best of health. It was important to me to leave an organisation in the strongest possible shape and I believe I have done so. The quality of this league winning squad, and the balance of ages within it, bodes well for continued success at the highest level, whilst the structure of the youth set-up will ensure that the long-term future of the club remains a bright one."
Who will sign for Man U?
Re: Who will sign for Man U?
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Sam Slater
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Re: Who will sign for Man U?
Disagree, Bob. Sorry. Saying Man Utd are a bad team and they only won the title because other teams were complacent, or whatever, is just sour grapes. The season is 38 games long. The best team wins the title.......especially if you win it by 11 points with three games to go.
They weren't 'great' champions. But were champions because they accumulated more points than any other team in the league. Final.
And for the record, that 'bad' Man Utd team had 61 points from their first 25 games. 5 more than Chelsea have now with Mourinho back and a better squad. And 7 points more than Man City have now who are playing well again (none of last year's complacency) and scoring bucket loads.
I know it's hard to give them credit, but credit is due.
It's Moyes who got rid of all the coaching staff. Moyes who broke Man Utd's transfer record for Falliani (turning down Strootman). Moyes that has the champions playing non-league football and Moyes' training methods that's seen nearly every Man Utd player this season have some sort of injury. It's all Moyes.
They weren't 'great' champions. But were champions because they accumulated more points than any other team in the league. Final.
And for the record, that 'bad' Man Utd team had 61 points from their first 25 games. 5 more than Chelsea have now with Mourinho back and a better squad. And 7 points more than Man City have now who are playing well again (none of last year's complacency) and scoring bucket loads.
I know it's hard to give them credit, but credit is due.
It's Moyes who got rid of all the coaching staff. Moyes who broke Man Utd's transfer record for Falliani (turning down Strootman). Moyes that has the champions playing non-league football and Moyes' training methods that's seen nearly every Man Utd player this season have some sort of injury. It's all Moyes.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
Re: Who will sign for Man U?
Moyes may have a six year contract, but has anybody seen it? I doubt the Gimp family will have signed a six year blank cheque, there may well be break clauses if Utd fail to reach the CL. Moyes's days are numbered unless he starts performing, enough is quite definitely enough.
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Arginald Valleywater
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Re: Who will sign for Man U?
Are Man U fans going to turn into Liverpool fans and start banging on about how good it was way back when etc etc?
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Bob Singleton
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Re: Who will sign for Man U?
Sam, it's not a case of "sour grapes" I genuinely believe that the Man U side of the last few years has been distinctly average. Man for man, City had a better squad but were mis-managed last season. Moyes was the wrong choice to manage such an average squad if they didn't want the club to slip into upper-mid table mediocrity. However, Moyes or no Moyes, they needed to bring in about 5 or 6 players last summer and they didn't.
If you don't think I'm correct, ask yourself this... which current Man United player could walk into a Man City or Chelsea squad and command a first team place? Let's go further... how many could walk into a Liverpool, Spurs or Everton squad and command a first team place? I can't think of a single Man U player who could enhance the current City team, and only Rooney would command a first team place at Chelsea.
As for the Fergie quote, as Mandy Rice-Davies once opined of someone else... well he would say that, wouldn't he. He's hardly likely to say, good luck Moysie, you've inherited a pig in a poke. Seriously, Fergie believes a midfield of Giggs, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Nani etc was good enough to continue his legacy? Pull the other one!
Man U now find themselves were they deserve to be
If you don't think I'm correct, ask yourself this... which current Man United player could walk into a Man City or Chelsea squad and command a first team place? Let's go further... how many could walk into a Liverpool, Spurs or Everton squad and command a first team place? I can't think of a single Man U player who could enhance the current City team, and only Rooney would command a first team place at Chelsea.
As for the Fergie quote, as Mandy Rice-Davies once opined of someone else... well he would say that, wouldn't he. He's hardly likely to say, good luck Moysie, you've inherited a pig in a poke. Seriously, Fergie believes a midfield of Giggs, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Nani etc was good enough to continue his legacy? Pull the other one!
Man U now find themselves were they deserve to be
"But how to make Liverpool economically prosperous? If only there was some way for Liverpudlians to profit from going on and on about the past in a whiny voice."
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Sam Slater
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Re: Who will sign for Man U?
[quote]Sam, it's not a case of "sour grapes" I genuinely believe that the Man U side of the last few years has been distinctly average.[/quote]
And you're entitled to your opinion........but they won the league by 11 points, lost the league in the 94th minute of the last game the season before and won the league before that. Your definition of 'distinctly average' puts a lot of other teams in the 'completely woeful' bracket.
[quote]Man for man, City had a better squad but were mis-managed last season.[/quote]
Then they, and Chelsea, must be being mismanaged again this season too, given that this time last year, that Man Utd squad had 61pts from 25 games. 5 more than Chelsea have this season and 7 more than Man City. I'll say that again: This time last year, that 'distinctly average' Man Utd side had 61pts. The two main title favourites this season have 56pts and 54pts.
[quote]Moyes was the wrong choice to manage such an average squad if they didn't want the club to slip into upper-mid table mediocrity.[/quote]
Wrong. Moyes was the wrong choice to manage a team of champions that were used to winning trophies. Moulensteen told Moyes he was moving from a yacht to a cruise ship when Moyes let him go. Moyes still thinks he's steering a yacht.
[quote]If you don't think I'm correct, ask yourself this... which current Man United player could walk into a Man City or Chelsea squad and command a first team place? Let's go further... how many could walk into a Liverpool, Spurs or Everton squad and command a first team place? I can't think of a single Man U player who could enhance the current City team, and only Rooney would command a first team place at Chelsea. [/quote]
Both Rooney and Van Persie would go straight in to the Chelsea side, and even City depending on formation of course. City did try for RVP 18 months ago and RVP is better than any striker at Chelsea. Vidic of last season would get into both sides too. I think De Gea has had a better season that both Hart and Cech. He's been awol this season but Evra would have got in at Chelsea last season. Given Barry got games last year at City, Carrick would have got in a that mopping up slot behind all of City's forwards (not so much this season). He'd do a better job than Barry (even Milner was played in that position at times). In fact, given the movement at City and Chelsea, I actually think Carrick would thrive much more with his range of passing than he does at Man Utd where it's been more about wingers.
[quote]As for the Fergie quote, as Mandy Rice-Davies once opined of someone else... well he would say that, wouldn't he.[/quote]
So you seriously think Fergie jumped ship because he wasn't up to another challenge? A man that has thrived on challenges? Give over. Fergie picked Moyes because he was Scottish and sentiment overpowered sensibility. Moyes won nothing for a decade at Everton and is dragging the champions down because he does not know how to get the best out of better players. His mentality is to train and work harder than the other team and it's archaic. He needs a team of grafters to get his system to work which is why Zaha never got a chance, Ferdinand can't get a game, Kagawa is anonymous and he'll ruin Mata.
City and Chelsea have improved. Even if Fergie had stayed on I don't think they would have been favourites for the title.......but they wouldn't be mid-table. They certainly wouldn't be 9 points off 4th after just over half a season.
You want to undermine Man Utd's trophies to give the impression they were lucky. I understand that. You're a Chelsea fan. But it's not giving credit where it's due.
But I'll tell you what I'll do.......I'll use your question about which Man Utd players would enhance the Chelsea/City/Liverpool/Spurs sides and ask you this: City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea have all had a fair amount of managerial changes over the last 3 or 4 seasons. How come not one of them had a look at Moyes while he was at Everton and supposedly doing 'miracles' with no money?
Could it be they knew he was shit?
And you're entitled to your opinion........but they won the league by 11 points, lost the league in the 94th minute of the last game the season before and won the league before that. Your definition of 'distinctly average' puts a lot of other teams in the 'completely woeful' bracket.
[quote]Man for man, City had a better squad but were mis-managed last season.[/quote]
Then they, and Chelsea, must be being mismanaged again this season too, given that this time last year, that Man Utd squad had 61pts from 25 games. 5 more than Chelsea have this season and 7 more than Man City. I'll say that again: This time last year, that 'distinctly average' Man Utd side had 61pts. The two main title favourites this season have 56pts and 54pts.
[quote]Moyes was the wrong choice to manage such an average squad if they didn't want the club to slip into upper-mid table mediocrity.[/quote]
Wrong. Moyes was the wrong choice to manage a team of champions that were used to winning trophies. Moulensteen told Moyes he was moving from a yacht to a cruise ship when Moyes let him go. Moyes still thinks he's steering a yacht.
[quote]If you don't think I'm correct, ask yourself this... which current Man United player could walk into a Man City or Chelsea squad and command a first team place? Let's go further... how many could walk into a Liverpool, Spurs or Everton squad and command a first team place? I can't think of a single Man U player who could enhance the current City team, and only Rooney would command a first team place at Chelsea. [/quote]
Both Rooney and Van Persie would go straight in to the Chelsea side, and even City depending on formation of course. City did try for RVP 18 months ago and RVP is better than any striker at Chelsea. Vidic of last season would get into both sides too. I think De Gea has had a better season that both Hart and Cech. He's been awol this season but Evra would have got in at Chelsea last season. Given Barry got games last year at City, Carrick would have got in a that mopping up slot behind all of City's forwards (not so much this season). He'd do a better job than Barry (even Milner was played in that position at times). In fact, given the movement at City and Chelsea, I actually think Carrick would thrive much more with his range of passing than he does at Man Utd where it's been more about wingers.
[quote]As for the Fergie quote, as Mandy Rice-Davies once opined of someone else... well he would say that, wouldn't he.[/quote]
So you seriously think Fergie jumped ship because he wasn't up to another challenge? A man that has thrived on challenges? Give over. Fergie picked Moyes because he was Scottish and sentiment overpowered sensibility. Moyes won nothing for a decade at Everton and is dragging the champions down because he does not know how to get the best out of better players. His mentality is to train and work harder than the other team and it's archaic. He needs a team of grafters to get his system to work which is why Zaha never got a chance, Ferdinand can't get a game, Kagawa is anonymous and he'll ruin Mata.
City and Chelsea have improved. Even if Fergie had stayed on I don't think they would have been favourites for the title.......but they wouldn't be mid-table. They certainly wouldn't be 9 points off 4th after just over half a season.
You want to undermine Man Utd's trophies to give the impression they were lucky. I understand that. You're a Chelsea fan. But it's not giving credit where it's due.
But I'll tell you what I'll do.......I'll use your question about which Man Utd players would enhance the Chelsea/City/Liverpool/Spurs sides and ask you this: City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea have all had a fair amount of managerial changes over the last 3 or 4 seasons. How come not one of them had a look at Moyes while he was at Everton and supposedly doing 'miracles' with no money?
Could it be they knew he was shit?
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
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A shorter version..
Ferguson + his own backroom staff + "average" team = triple PL champs (1)
6 months later....
Moyes + his own backroom staff + same "average" team = mediocrity
(1) apart from a last minute Man City goal!!!
And the difference? Moyes. His own backroom staff which he appointed.
Did it have to be like this? No.
e.g. Mourinho + "average" team, Porto = Champions League winners.
It's all down to Moyes and the disastrous choice made in appointing him.
6 months later....
Moyes + his own backroom staff + same "average" team = mediocrity
(1) apart from a last minute Man City goal!!!
And the difference? Moyes. His own backroom staff which he appointed.
Did it have to be like this? No.
e.g. Mourinho + "average" team, Porto = Champions League winners.
It's all down to Moyes and the disastrous choice made in appointing him.
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Arginald Valleywater
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Re: A shorter version..
It will be very interesting to see what happens to Moyes if the worst happens...out of Chumpions League and finishing 7th...Sponsors back winning teams and can be most fickle....
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David Johnson
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Argie
My guess would be that Moyes would be out of the door.
I know Fergie made the spiel about the Manchester United way and not ditching managers at the first opportunity. However, unlike Fergie, when Moyes became manager he took over a very successful team.
And Chelsea has proved that you can replace your manager at a drop of the hat and still be successful.
I know Fergie made the spiel about the Manchester United way and not ditching managers at the first opportunity. However, unlike Fergie, when Moyes became manager he took over a very successful team.
And Chelsea has proved that you can replace your manager at a drop of the hat and still be successful.
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Milk Tray Man
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Re: Who will sign for Man U?
Moyes is a workaday manager who is okay managing workaday teams (Everton, Preston) but is completely out of his depth at old trafford.
His rear-view mirror is also way too big. he might have stood half a chance if he'd stuck with fergie's backroom staff but no - he insisted on bringing in his old cronies from Everton, so that was continuity right out the window. And Mata aside, who of note has he signed? That would be his old boy Fellaini (who has so far flattered to deceive - when not injured) and of course we have his seemingly obsessive pursuit of Leighton Baines.
what's that joke doing the rounds? Moyes spent 11 yeas trying to get Everton to finish above United, now it looks like he's finally going to succeed. Many a true word and all that ...
His rear-view mirror is also way too big. he might have stood half a chance if he'd stuck with fergie's backroom staff but no - he insisted on bringing in his old cronies from Everton, so that was continuity right out the window. And Mata aside, who of note has he signed? That would be his old boy Fellaini (who has so far flattered to deceive - when not injured) and of course we have his seemingly obsessive pursuit of Leighton Baines.
what's that joke doing the rounds? Moyes spent 11 yeas trying to get Everton to finish above United, now it looks like he's finally going to succeed. Many a true word and all that ...