Thank God for video eh?
Mark Duggan 'lawfully killed'...
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max_tranmere
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derrick76
As a consequence of the mess that was Stephen Lawrence investigation the Police has been branded 'institutionally racist' and have had to watch themselves ever since. As far as I remember the institutionally racist tag came in the summing up at the end of Lord Macpherson's report into it and refereed to the 'canteen culture' that existed in the Police, namely comments under people's breath about a new black recruit, about how a black officer in their ranks who is going for promotion shouldn't be considered because he is black, and so on. I think I'm right in saying that the central area of his report, that specifically looked into the Police's investigation into the murder, made no allegation that the Police had been racist in their investigation - but found instead that they'd completely cocked it all up because of incompetence.
However the media misreported this and basically claimed the Police had been racist in their investigation and had not really bothered to look into it properly because the victim was black. I even remember a play in a theatre, and I think it became a TV production as well, called "The colour of justice" - again suggesting the Police hadn't bothered or cared in their investigation because the lad was black. Macpherson even got death threats over the perceived problems all this caused for the Met and for society, and are still causing. All this made a very good story for the TV media and the print press who just carried on shit-stirring on a daily basis and have made it harder for the Police to do their job. The 'canteen culture' which he referred to needed to, and still needs to, be weeded out - and any officers who are racist towards their colleagues need to be found out, punished and sacked.
There is no doubt the killers on Stephen Lawrence in Eltham in 1993 killed him because he was black. One of them yelled "what, what nig***?" as the mob ran across the street then stabbed him. The undercover film taken in the suspect's homes, after the Police later planted cameras in them, showed them saying similar things, regularly, and also wielding knives. So there is no doubt Stephen Lawrence was murdered because he was black. What I find odd is why is it worse that he was killed because he was black than if he had been killed regardless of his colour. Being murdered is about as bad as it can get, and still results in the loss of a loved one for the family, whatever the reasons for it were. Let's say it was established that the people who killed him weren't racist but just went around killing people randomly regardless of their colour (that is NOT what happened with Stephen Lawrence but bare with me as I'm trying to make a point here) do you think his mother Doreen and father Neville would be saying "oh well that's a relief, so long as he wasn't killed because he was black. Phew! I feel much better now".
Of course they wouldn't because he is dead whatever the reason, and that is about as sad and tragic as it can get. So is a racist killing worse than any other kind of killing? No, in my view - because a killing is terrible and evil, whatever. I'm sure Doreen and Neville Lawrence would have been just as heartbroken if he had been knifed for his wallet, by some scumbags who just murder people whilst mugging them whatever the victim's colour, because it would still have been a case of their son being murdered and it doesn't get much worse, or devastating, than that. He would be deceased just as much, whatever the motivation. The implication seems to be, when people talk about this, that it's so much worse that it was done because he was black, which is what happened here, but like I said a non-racial murder still results in the parents losing their child just as much as a racist murder does.
However the media misreported this and basically claimed the Police had been racist in their investigation and had not really bothered to look into it properly because the victim was black. I even remember a play in a theatre, and I think it became a TV production as well, called "The colour of justice" - again suggesting the Police hadn't bothered or cared in their investigation because the lad was black. Macpherson even got death threats over the perceived problems all this caused for the Met and for society, and are still causing. All this made a very good story for the TV media and the print press who just carried on shit-stirring on a daily basis and have made it harder for the Police to do their job. The 'canteen culture' which he referred to needed to, and still needs to, be weeded out - and any officers who are racist towards their colleagues need to be found out, punished and sacked.
There is no doubt the killers on Stephen Lawrence in Eltham in 1993 killed him because he was black. One of them yelled "what, what nig***?" as the mob ran across the street then stabbed him. The undercover film taken in the suspect's homes, after the Police later planted cameras in them, showed them saying similar things, regularly, and also wielding knives. So there is no doubt Stephen Lawrence was murdered because he was black. What I find odd is why is it worse that he was killed because he was black than if he had been killed regardless of his colour. Being murdered is about as bad as it can get, and still results in the loss of a loved one for the family, whatever the reasons for it were. Let's say it was established that the people who killed him weren't racist but just went around killing people randomly regardless of their colour (that is NOT what happened with Stephen Lawrence but bare with me as I'm trying to make a point here) do you think his mother Doreen and father Neville would be saying "oh well that's a relief, so long as he wasn't killed because he was black. Phew! I feel much better now".
Of course they wouldn't because he is dead whatever the reason, and that is about as sad and tragic as it can get. So is a racist killing worse than any other kind of killing? No, in my view - because a killing is terrible and evil, whatever. I'm sure Doreen and Neville Lawrence would have been just as heartbroken if he had been knifed for his wallet, by some scumbags who just murder people whilst mugging them whatever the victim's colour, because it would still have been a case of their son being murdered and it doesn't get much worse, or devastating, than that. He would be deceased just as much, whatever the motivation. The implication seems to be, when people talk about this, that it's so much worse that it was done because he was black, which is what happened here, but like I said a non-racial murder still results in the parents losing their child just as much as a racist murder does.
Re: derrick76
Well that was my point. I do not care if the killers were racist. Racism is a part of life and will always be there. My concern regarding the Stephen Lawrence fiasco is that Black life is considered cheap and unimportant. This is something that I personally feel was a characteristic of the situation...and others the world over.
On the matter of racism and police, do you not feel one of the faults of the police in the UK is that they indeed possess racist qualities?? Take it from someone who has been on the receiving end, they very much are. Oh, and I'm not one of 'di man dem pon di endz'. Having a high level of education, and being a professional doesn't make you immune to their treatment. In most cases, it makes it worse via resentment. This of course, is not limited to the UK. It's the same in Canada and the USA. It must be the 'power trip' thing.
He who knows it feels it.
Still wondering what Argie was on about regarding Stephen.
On the matter of racism and police, do you not feel one of the faults of the police in the UK is that they indeed possess racist qualities?? Take it from someone who has been on the receiving end, they very much are. Oh, and I'm not one of 'di man dem pon di endz'. Having a high level of education, and being a professional doesn't make you immune to their treatment. In most cases, it makes it worse via resentment. This of course, is not limited to the UK. It's the same in Canada and the USA. It must be the 'power trip' thing.
He who knows it feels it.
Still wondering what Argie was on about regarding Stephen.
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: derrick76
It's difficult to generalise. Like I said on the thread about trusting the Police a few rotten apples doesn't make the whole barrel bad. A copper who does not behave in a racist way should obviously not be called a racist, therefore it is unfair on the decent officers, and I think most are, for anyone to call the Police racist overall.
Re: derrick76
I have dealt with and observed the police form country to country for many years and I wish you were right, but...
Like us, they are human, and not infallible. A good number of these individuals are heavily flawed. Some even racist. Some just bigoted in one way or another. It's just that when it comes to Black people it's the skin colour and whatever misconception of Blacks that gets them frothing at the mouth.
However, I see poor White people receive also the 'treatment'. This falls under the bigotry I mentioned. The cops in the USA just got away with killing one of them - Kelly Thomas. That poor, homeless, White man even begged for his life to boot.
I'm telling you. Power does weird things to people, and the police have plenty of it and then some!
Like us, they are human, and not infallible. A good number of these individuals are heavily flawed. Some even racist. Some just bigoted in one way or another. It's just that when it comes to Black people it's the skin colour and whatever misconception of Blacks that gets them frothing at the mouth.
However, I see poor White people receive also the 'treatment'. This falls under the bigotry I mentioned. The cops in the USA just got away with killing one of them - Kelly Thomas. That poor, homeless, White man even begged for his life to boot.
I'm telling you. Power does weird things to people, and the police have plenty of it and then some!
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Milk Tray Man
- Posts: 240
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: derrick76
max_tranmere wrote:
> It's difficult to generalise. Like I said on the thread about
> trusting the Police a few rotten apples doesn't make the whole
> barrel bad. A copper who does not behave in a racist way should
> obviously not be called a racist, therefore it is unfair on the
> decent officers, and I think most are, for anyone to call the
> Police racist overall.
Have to agree with this.
> It's difficult to generalise. Like I said on the thread about
> trusting the Police a few rotten apples doesn't make the whole
> barrel bad. A copper who does not behave in a racist way should
> obviously not be called a racist, therefore it is unfair on the
> decent officers, and I think most are, for anyone to call the
> Police racist overall.
Have to agree with this.