An interesting debate took place on Newsnight last Friday about the Bermondsey by-election (in south London) of 1983, which was said to be one of the nastiest and most violent election campaigns ever. I remember this happening when I was a teenager and I've seen things about it over the years since. Labour managed to lose a safe-seat, creating a massive swing to the Liberals, and the whole affair seemed to confirm yet further what a complete joke the Labour party of that era was. Simon Hughes won and he and the Liberal Democrats, as they later became known, still hold the seat today.
Peter Tatchell, the Labour candidate (who made a name for himself as a gays rights campaigner later on), was one one side. Simon Hughes for the Liberals on the other. I recall there being massive hostility to Tatchell, the fact he was gay, and the fact he is an extreme left-winger. I remember massive graffiti being daubed on walls in the area saying things like "PETER TATCHELL IS A COMMUNIST POOF" and similar such things. In this Newsnight debate Tatchell claims to have been punched, kicked and spat at, to having had many death threats and attacks on his home. What is ironic is that Simon Hughes was revealed to be gay years later. So much was made in the by-election of Peter Tatchell being gay that the Liberal's election leaflet even said "Simon Hughes - a straight choice". That was a clever pun, and the Newsnight presenter was trying not to laugh when he mentions it as part of the recent debate.
It was an interesting milestone in politics. In the old clips they showed, Tatchell is doing his best not to sound like he's from Australia but is instead trying to sound like a working-class geezer from south London. I recall at the 1983 general election, which happened some months later, Labour leader Michael Foot's manifesto being described as "the longest suicide note in history". Bermondsey helped keep the Labour party in the doldrums for many years - mainly because of the hard-left element still in the party (militant-tendency, which Neil Kinnock eventually expelled from the party a few years later) and also because in those days being gay worked against you.
Does anyone remember all of this, particularly anyone from London who remembers it first hand.
Clip from last Friday's Newsnight:
Bermondsey - 30 years on...
Re: Bermondsey - 30 years on...
As I remember it, Tatchell did not come out as gay until after he lost the election.
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Arginald Valleywater
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Re: Bermondsey - 30 years on...
And 30 years later we all know he bites pillow. And nobody gives a flying fuck! Tatchell is a sad self publicist.
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David Johnson
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Essex Lad/Arginald Valleywater..
The usual crap I see.
"As I remember it, Tatchell did not come out as gay until after he lost the election."
The Bermondsey by-election was in 1983.
He had accepted being gay in 1969, and in London became a leading member of the Gay Liberation Front (GLF) until its 1974 collapse. During this time Tatchell was prominent in organising sit-ins at pubs that refused to serve "poofs" and protests against police harassment and the medical classification of homosexuality as an illness. With others he helped organise Britain's first Gay Pride march in 1972.
I suspect Essex Lad this was a bit of a giveaway and the basis of the extreme homophobic campaign run by the Liberals. Or did you think it was the way he walked in the election campaign then?
"And 30 years later we all know he bites pillow. And nobody gives a flying fuck! Tatchell is a sad self publicist".
Nobody gives a flying fuck. Argie? Really, what about half the Tory party voting against gay marriage? After all you voted for these fuckers, didn't you?
"As I remember it, Tatchell did not come out as gay until after he lost the election."
The Bermondsey by-election was in 1983.
He had accepted being gay in 1969, and in London became a leading member of the Gay Liberation Front (GLF) until its 1974 collapse. During this time Tatchell was prominent in organising sit-ins at pubs that refused to serve "poofs" and protests against police harassment and the medical classification of homosexuality as an illness. With others he helped organise Britain's first Gay Pride march in 1972.
I suspect Essex Lad this was a bit of a giveaway and the basis of the extreme homophobic campaign run by the Liberals. Or did you think it was the way he walked in the election campaign then?
"And 30 years later we all know he bites pillow. And nobody gives a flying fuck! Tatchell is a sad self publicist".
Nobody gives a flying fuck. Argie? Really, what about half the Tory party voting against gay marriage? After all you voted for these fuckers, didn't you?
It doesn't work when you quote selectively DJ
David Johnson wrote:
> The usual crap I see.
>
> "As I remember it, Tatchell did not come out as gay until after
> he lost the election."
>
> The Bermondsey by-election was in 1983.
>
> He had accepted being gay in 1969, and in London became a
> leading member of the Gay Liberation Front (GLF) until its 1974
> collapse. During this time Tatchell was prominent in organising
> sit-ins at pubs that refused to serve "poofs" and protests
> against police harassment and the medical classification of
> homosexuality as an illness. With others he helped organise
> Britain's first Gay Pride march in 1972.
>
> I suspect Essex Lad this was a bit of a giveaway and the basis
> of the extreme homophobic campaign run by the Liberals. Or did
> you think it was the way he walked in the election campaign
> then?
>
We can all read wikipedia. Go and check your history ? or at least read the rest of the article especially this bit:
"The divisions in the Labour Party, which Tatchell's far left views had exposed, and his homosexuality (which he refused to confirm or deny in media appearances)"
Game, set and match Essex Lad I think...
> The usual crap I see.
>
> "As I remember it, Tatchell did not come out as gay until after
> he lost the election."
>
> The Bermondsey by-election was in 1983.
>
> He had accepted being gay in 1969, and in London became a
> leading member of the Gay Liberation Front (GLF) until its 1974
> collapse. During this time Tatchell was prominent in organising
> sit-ins at pubs that refused to serve "poofs" and protests
> against police harassment and the medical classification of
> homosexuality as an illness. With others he helped organise
> Britain's first Gay Pride march in 1972.
>
> I suspect Essex Lad this was a bit of a giveaway and the basis
> of the extreme homophobic campaign run by the Liberals. Or did
> you think it was the way he walked in the election campaign
> then?
>
We can all read wikipedia. Go and check your history ? or at least read the rest of the article especially this bit:
"The divisions in the Labour Party, which Tatchell's far left views had exposed, and his homosexuality (which he refused to confirm or deny in media appearances)"
Game, set and match Essex Lad I think...
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Selective quoting from Essex Lad
""The divisions in the Labour Party, which Tatchell's far left views had exposed, and his homosexuality (which he refused to confirm or deny in media appearances)"
Game, set and match Essex Lad I think..."
In your dreams Essex Lad. You stated "As I remember it, Tatchell did not come out as gay until after he lost the election."
Clearly the slur you are putting on this is that he was in the closet.
Obviously by YOUR selective quoting you omit to mention that nobody in their right mind could assume he was heterosexual from his work with the Gay Liberation Front and associated issues which had been going on for years and years prior to the Bermondsey election.
Back to the drawing board, Essex Lad !wink!
Game, set and match Essex Lad I think..."
In your dreams Essex Lad. You stated "As I remember it, Tatchell did not come out as gay until after he lost the election."
Clearly the slur you are putting on this is that he was in the closet.
Obviously by YOUR selective quoting you omit to mention that nobody in their right mind could assume he was heterosexual from his work with the Gay Liberation Front and associated issues which had been going on for years and years prior to the Bermondsey election.
Back to the drawing board, Essex Lad !wink!
Re: Selective quoting from Essex Lad
You've written some utter cobblers on this site from time to time but you really take the biscuit this time. Where on earth do you get the idea that I casting a slur? Where have I said that Tatchell was in the closet?
It is a FACT that irrespective of what he did or did not do prior to 1983, Tatchell refused to admit he was gay to the press until AFTER he lost the Bermondsey by-election. Find me one national newspaper that ran a story about Tatchell's homosexuality during the by-election campaign.
As for this pyramid of inverted piffle: "nobody in their right mind could assume he was heterosexual from his work with the Gay Liberation Front and associated issues which had been going on for years and years prior to the Bermondsey election"...
NO ONE outside of the GLF and assorted groups had ever heard of Peter Tatchell prior to his selection at Bermondsey. No one knew of his work for homosexual rights. How could they possibly know unless they were similarly involved? Do you really think the good people of Bermondsey could surf the net to research the candidates? Oh no, hang on a minute there was no internet in 1983. People got their news and info from newspapers who did not run stories of Tatchell's involvement with gay rights.
It is a FACT that irrespective of what he did or did not do prior to 1983, Tatchell refused to admit he was gay to the press until AFTER he lost the Bermondsey by-election. Find me one national newspaper that ran a story about Tatchell's homosexuality during the by-election campaign.
As for this pyramid of inverted piffle: "nobody in their right mind could assume he was heterosexual from his work with the Gay Liberation Front and associated issues which had been going on for years and years prior to the Bermondsey election"...
NO ONE outside of the GLF and assorted groups had ever heard of Peter Tatchell prior to his selection at Bermondsey. No one knew of his work for homosexual rights. How could they possibly know unless they were similarly involved? Do you really think the good people of Bermondsey could surf the net to research the candidates? Oh no, hang on a minute there was no internet in 1983. People got their news and info from newspapers who did not run stories of Tatchell's involvement with gay rights.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Selective quoting from Essex Lad
"It is a FACT that irrespective of what he did or did not do prior to 1983, Tatchell refused to admit he was gay to the press until AFTER he lost the Bermondsey by-election."
The reason he did this was that it was advice given by Labour supporters and perhaps more importantly he was in fear of his life with various attacks, his home number being published, death threats, bullets in the post and an unprecedented onslaught of homophobic insults and threats etc etc.
"Find me one national newspaper that ran a story about Tatchell's homosexuality during the by-election campaign."
The Sun fabricated a story about him deserting the electorate to attend the Gay Olympics. He was frequently referred to in the Sun as " Red Pete, the Gay Rights Campaigner". So you are clearly talking arse. I have given a lot of other examples later in this post.
"
NO ONE outside of the GLF and assorted groups had ever heard of Peter Tatchell prior to his selection at Bermondsey. No one knew of his work for homosexual rights. How could they possibly know unless they were similarly involved? Do you really think the good people of Bermondsey could surf the net to research the candidates? Oh no, hang on a minute there was no internet in 1983. People got their news and info from newspapers who did not run stories of Tatchell's involvement with gay rights."
I have already shown you that you are talking complete arse. So the Gay Liberation Front never got any press and their demonstrations were completely ignored were they? Don't be silly.
With regard to the good people of Bermondsey as you refer to them, not knowing that he was gay because of the absence of the Internet, read the following and learn something for once.
Liberals campaigned with badges with Ive been kissed by Peter Tatchell on them. Hughes the Liberal candidate did nothing to stop the homophobia which even came from parts of the Labour party. This was the song sung by O'Grady the "Real Bermondsey Labour candidate"
Tatchell is a poppet, as pretty as can be
But he must be slow if he don?t know that he won?t be your MP
Tatchell is an Aussie, he lives in a council flat
He wears his trousers back to front because he doesn?t know this from that
Leaflets of Tatchell with his phone number were put out with the photo doctored to look as if he was wearing lipstick and eyeliner. Tatchell was subject to non-stop vilification and homophobic phone calls.
Of course, according to you, none of this occurred because details of Tatchell's sexuality were not known or referred to in the national press. Everyone was just having a guess.
These are some of the events that occurred during the 16 month runup to the Bermondsey election and described by Tatchell.
FABRICATIONS
* The Sun claimed I deserted my prospective constituents to attend the Gay Olympics in San Francisco. I never attended that event and The Sun had no evidence that I did so.
* The Sun alleged that I was from a well-off family and that I had lied about my working class background. It's story was riddled with factual inaccuracies and exaggerations which misrepresented my childhood, parents and the area where I grew up.
* The Daily Express reported me as having attended the TUC Conference in Brighton in a way which implied that I was living the high-life and neglecting my would-be constituents. I did not attend the TUC conference - either then or since.
* The News of the World retouched photographs of me, which made it appear that I was wearing lipstick and eye-liner and gave an impression of gross effeminacy. I have never worn make-up of any kind.
* The Daily Starpublished an editorial in which I was named as a member of the Militant Tendency. It also suggested that I had been selected as a Labour candidate by underhand methods. In fact, it was well known at the time that not only was I not a Militant member but that I opposed their policies and they had opposed my selection as the Labour candidate. Furthermore, my selection was entirely democratic and fully in accord with Labour's constitution.
* The Daily Mail quoted a constituent accusing me of being a squatter, without questioning or rebutting the claim, and without printing my denial. I have never been a squatter, my tenancy was fully authorised, and I had always promptly, regularly and fully paid my rent.
* The Daily Mail captioned a photograph of me canvassing a constituent with the claim that he had expressed disagreement with me and my policies. In fact, he had crossed the road to shake my hand and offer me his congratulations and support - something which the reporter who wrote the story had personally witnessed first hand.
* The Evening Standard rehashed an old and disproven-story about my alleged anti-parliamentarianism shortly before the by-election, and on the eve of a crucial Labour NEC vote over my candidature. It gave the impression that my comments had just been made and that I was being deliberately provocative and blatantly challenging the authority of the NEC. This story came close to jeopardising my eventual endorsement by the Labour leadership.
DECEPTION, INTRUSION & HARASSMENT
* Journalists knocked on my door as early as 7am and as late as midnight - often for days on end - thereby preventing me from getting a decent night's sleep.
* They partially blocked the rubbish chute outside my flat so they could collect and remove the contents for examination.
* Photographers trained telephoto lenses on my flat- sometimes 24 hours a day- and attempted to take pictures through the windows.
* They tried to trick the headmaster of a local school where I was governor into making quite innocent statements about my involvement with the school, so they could publish them in way which would have implied that I was a paedophile (which I am not and never have been).
* Reporters followed me everywhere: on foot, in cars, and on the buses and tube. Sometimes, even after allowing myself to be interviewed, they persisted in trailing me everywhere against my wishes.
* They passed themselves off as relatives from Australia, and as Southwark Council officers, in order to glean information about my private life from my neighbours.
* Journalists implied to my parents in Australia that I had been involved in a serious accident as a way of gaining entry to their home and winning their trust and confidence.
* They quizzed children as young as eight living on my estate about my sexuality and relationships.
* Pressmen came into my workplace, the North Lambeth Day Centre for the single homeless, without permission and declined to leave when asked. They harassed other staff and Day Centre users, pestering them for information about me. Their action seriously disrupted the operation of the Day Centre, impeding the services we were attempting to provide those in urgent housing need.
INTIMIDATION
* Some journalists indicated that they would only stop door-stepping me, knocking on my door, and peeping through my windows, keyhole and letterbox, if I agreed to give them an interview.
Ya talking bollocks.
To paraphrase your remark "Game Set and Match, DJ"
Back to the junior courts for you, Essex Lad. !wink!
The reason he did this was that it was advice given by Labour supporters and perhaps more importantly he was in fear of his life with various attacks, his home number being published, death threats, bullets in the post and an unprecedented onslaught of homophobic insults and threats etc etc.
"Find me one national newspaper that ran a story about Tatchell's homosexuality during the by-election campaign."
The Sun fabricated a story about him deserting the electorate to attend the Gay Olympics. He was frequently referred to in the Sun as " Red Pete, the Gay Rights Campaigner". So you are clearly talking arse. I have given a lot of other examples later in this post.
"
NO ONE outside of the GLF and assorted groups had ever heard of Peter Tatchell prior to his selection at Bermondsey. No one knew of his work for homosexual rights. How could they possibly know unless they were similarly involved? Do you really think the good people of Bermondsey could surf the net to research the candidates? Oh no, hang on a minute there was no internet in 1983. People got their news and info from newspapers who did not run stories of Tatchell's involvement with gay rights."
I have already shown you that you are talking complete arse. So the Gay Liberation Front never got any press and their demonstrations were completely ignored were they? Don't be silly.
With regard to the good people of Bermondsey as you refer to them, not knowing that he was gay because of the absence of the Internet, read the following and learn something for once.
Liberals campaigned with badges with Ive been kissed by Peter Tatchell on them. Hughes the Liberal candidate did nothing to stop the homophobia which even came from parts of the Labour party. This was the song sung by O'Grady the "Real Bermondsey Labour candidate"
Tatchell is a poppet, as pretty as can be
But he must be slow if he don?t know that he won?t be your MP
Tatchell is an Aussie, he lives in a council flat
He wears his trousers back to front because he doesn?t know this from that
Leaflets of Tatchell with his phone number were put out with the photo doctored to look as if he was wearing lipstick and eyeliner. Tatchell was subject to non-stop vilification and homophobic phone calls.
Of course, according to you, none of this occurred because details of Tatchell's sexuality were not known or referred to in the national press. Everyone was just having a guess.
These are some of the events that occurred during the 16 month runup to the Bermondsey election and described by Tatchell.
FABRICATIONS
* The Sun claimed I deserted my prospective constituents to attend the Gay Olympics in San Francisco. I never attended that event and The Sun had no evidence that I did so.
* The Sun alleged that I was from a well-off family and that I had lied about my working class background. It's story was riddled with factual inaccuracies and exaggerations which misrepresented my childhood, parents and the area where I grew up.
* The Daily Express reported me as having attended the TUC Conference in Brighton in a way which implied that I was living the high-life and neglecting my would-be constituents. I did not attend the TUC conference - either then or since.
* The News of the World retouched photographs of me, which made it appear that I was wearing lipstick and eye-liner and gave an impression of gross effeminacy. I have never worn make-up of any kind.
* The Daily Starpublished an editorial in which I was named as a member of the Militant Tendency. It also suggested that I had been selected as a Labour candidate by underhand methods. In fact, it was well known at the time that not only was I not a Militant member but that I opposed their policies and they had opposed my selection as the Labour candidate. Furthermore, my selection was entirely democratic and fully in accord with Labour's constitution.
* The Daily Mail quoted a constituent accusing me of being a squatter, without questioning or rebutting the claim, and without printing my denial. I have never been a squatter, my tenancy was fully authorised, and I had always promptly, regularly and fully paid my rent.
* The Daily Mail captioned a photograph of me canvassing a constituent with the claim that he had expressed disagreement with me and my policies. In fact, he had crossed the road to shake my hand and offer me his congratulations and support - something which the reporter who wrote the story had personally witnessed first hand.
* The Evening Standard rehashed an old and disproven-story about my alleged anti-parliamentarianism shortly before the by-election, and on the eve of a crucial Labour NEC vote over my candidature. It gave the impression that my comments had just been made and that I was being deliberately provocative and blatantly challenging the authority of the NEC. This story came close to jeopardising my eventual endorsement by the Labour leadership.
DECEPTION, INTRUSION & HARASSMENT
* Journalists knocked on my door as early as 7am and as late as midnight - often for days on end - thereby preventing me from getting a decent night's sleep.
* They partially blocked the rubbish chute outside my flat so they could collect and remove the contents for examination.
* Photographers trained telephoto lenses on my flat- sometimes 24 hours a day- and attempted to take pictures through the windows.
* They tried to trick the headmaster of a local school where I was governor into making quite innocent statements about my involvement with the school, so they could publish them in way which would have implied that I was a paedophile (which I am not and never have been).
* Reporters followed me everywhere: on foot, in cars, and on the buses and tube. Sometimes, even after allowing myself to be interviewed, they persisted in trailing me everywhere against my wishes.
* They passed themselves off as relatives from Australia, and as Southwark Council officers, in order to glean information about my private life from my neighbours.
* Journalists implied to my parents in Australia that I had been involved in a serious accident as a way of gaining entry to their home and winning their trust and confidence.
* They quizzed children as young as eight living on my estate about my sexuality and relationships.
* Pressmen came into my workplace, the North Lambeth Day Centre for the single homeless, without permission and declined to leave when asked. They harassed other staff and Day Centre users, pestering them for information about me. Their action seriously disrupted the operation of the Day Centre, impeding the services we were attempting to provide those in urgent housing need.
INTIMIDATION
* Some journalists indicated that they would only stop door-stepping me, knocking on my door, and peeping through my windows, keyhole and letterbox, if I agreed to give them an interview.
Ya talking bollocks.
To paraphrase your remark "Game Set and Match, DJ"
Back to the junior courts for you, Essex Lad. !wink!
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Essex Lad
Tatchell mentions in the Newsnight interview from last week, I posted a link at the top, that the MP Chris Smith came out as gay the following year. That must have been a brave thing to do because in those days it could still harm your career. It seems crazy looking back at all this now - someone who just likes their own gender, getting with someone who likes their own gender too, and that be seen as so bad you should be ostricised from politics. But that was the attitude them. Years earlier it was even worse, it was always rumoured Ted Heath was gay, and that would have certainly ruined his political career in that era. It didn't though because he never admitted it, even though many people apparently knew.
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
David
I'm not familiar with things Tatchell did in order to try and rid society of homophobia years earlier, but if he did the things you say that would have worked against him as a public figure because people would have cottoned on to the fact he was probably gay himself - in an era when that would harm you. Some people who are straight would have bound to have lobbied for gay equality, but most people who did were gay themselves, so in a time when being gay meant society treated you as a social leper and meant you had little chance of developing a career in public life, it was a gutsy thing for Tatchell to do. Honourable too.