"How can it be that it is better for someone to be on benefit than to go out and work."
Do people believe EVERYTHING they read in the Daily Mail?
get down the gym or ,lose your benefits!!
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
William
There are a large number of misconceptions in your post.
"The reason that I have issues with the Unemployed getting a rise is that the rise comes from taxes which the working person has to pay"
This implies that you have two completely separate, rigid groups: the unemployed, often thought of as shirkers spending years on the dole; the employed, working for decades losing their hard earned to support the shirkers.
Reality is completely different. In my lifetime, we have moved from a world of "jobs for life" in many cases to a new world of zero hour contracts, short time work, self employment with no safety net and insecure work. Millions are just one stroke of bad luck away from unemployment.
My guess woudl be that many of the tens of thousands of people in retail who have lost their jobs in the last few years, some of them after decades of work, would have had similar views to yours, William. Now as they struggle to get by on ?71 jobseekers allowance a week, I would imagine they are thankful for the rises in line with inflation paid for in part by their taxes.
"This is the crux. I see the way that the benefit culture has developed and fed itself to the point that it is obscene......."
Misconception number 2. In 1997 welfare expenditure as a proportion of GDP was 7.76%. IN 2010 it was 7.26%. If you want to destroy the welfare state which has long been the aim of the Tory party, you would argue that it is "totally unaffordable" wouldn't you?
"How can it be that it is better for someone to be on benefit than to go out and work. That is wrong and something that needs to be addressed".
Misconception number 3. Only people who are unemployed get benefits. The recent limit of a 1% rise on benefits is expected to hit people, over 60% of whom actually work. More people in London who get housing benefit work as opposed to being unemployed.
Who are the real scroungers here? First anyone who thinks that ?71 a week is the life of riley is bonkers. Secondly, one of the key factors in British society over the last 20 years has been the relentless forcing down of wages in the private sector so that now we have a large number of working poor. Tax credits are paid to the working poor. Who are the scroungers here? The companies that are subsidised by the taxpayer. There has been a huge increase in the housing benefit bill in the UK. Who are the scroungers here? The rental industry which uses privately owned houses, particularly in the south east as a licence to print money - money printed by the taxpayer. A living wage would help to stop corporate scroungers taking advantage of tax credits. Rent controls would prevent rented house owners scrounging taxpayer money.
I could go on, but that is enough hopefully to give you food for thought. If not, try your local food bank!
"The reason that I have issues with the Unemployed getting a rise is that the rise comes from taxes which the working person has to pay"
This implies that you have two completely separate, rigid groups: the unemployed, often thought of as shirkers spending years on the dole; the employed, working for decades losing their hard earned to support the shirkers.
Reality is completely different. In my lifetime, we have moved from a world of "jobs for life" in many cases to a new world of zero hour contracts, short time work, self employment with no safety net and insecure work. Millions are just one stroke of bad luck away from unemployment.
My guess woudl be that many of the tens of thousands of people in retail who have lost their jobs in the last few years, some of them after decades of work, would have had similar views to yours, William. Now as they struggle to get by on ?71 jobseekers allowance a week, I would imagine they are thankful for the rises in line with inflation paid for in part by their taxes.
"This is the crux. I see the way that the benefit culture has developed and fed itself to the point that it is obscene......."
Misconception number 2. In 1997 welfare expenditure as a proportion of GDP was 7.76%. IN 2010 it was 7.26%. If you want to destroy the welfare state which has long been the aim of the Tory party, you would argue that it is "totally unaffordable" wouldn't you?
"How can it be that it is better for someone to be on benefit than to go out and work. That is wrong and something that needs to be addressed".
Misconception number 3. Only people who are unemployed get benefits. The recent limit of a 1% rise on benefits is expected to hit people, over 60% of whom actually work. More people in London who get housing benefit work as opposed to being unemployed.
Who are the real scroungers here? First anyone who thinks that ?71 a week is the life of riley is bonkers. Secondly, one of the key factors in British society over the last 20 years has been the relentless forcing down of wages in the private sector so that now we have a large number of working poor. Tax credits are paid to the working poor. Who are the scroungers here? The companies that are subsidised by the taxpayer. There has been a huge increase in the housing benefit bill in the UK. Who are the scroungers here? The rental industry which uses privately owned houses, particularly in the south east as a licence to print money - money printed by the taxpayer. A living wage would help to stop corporate scroungers taking advantage of tax credits. Rent controls would prevent rented house owners scrounging taxpayer money.
I could go on, but that is enough hopefully to give you food for thought. If not, try your local food bank!
Re: William
Well said and on the housing front you could also argue that if all the social housing housing hadn't been said off at a massive loss to get Tory voters maybe the low wages wouldn't be so much of a problem as they then could have lived in council housing and they wouldn't need housing benefit.
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Cuntybollocks
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: get down the gym or ,lose your benefits!!
I might be able to shine some light on this subject.
I am just back from a weeks holiday in Tenerife. A very nice hotel and by no means cheap. When we were there we spoke to a few different families. We got quite friendly with one of them, a nice young couple in there 20's with two little boys.You pass the time of day and soon the subject turned to work. I told him what we did but his reply was quite different to what me and the mrs expected.
Both had never worked, and through benifit scams inc bad back which he fully admitted they led a fairly decent lifestyle.
I worked for my holiday. Tell me what's wrong here please?
I am just back from a weeks holiday in Tenerife. A very nice hotel and by no means cheap. When we were there we spoke to a few different families. We got quite friendly with one of them, a nice young couple in there 20's with two little boys.You pass the time of day and soon the subject turned to work. I told him what we did but his reply was quite different to what me and the mrs expected.
Both had never worked, and through benifit scams inc bad back which he fully admitted they led a fairly decent lifestyle.
I worked for my holiday. Tell me what's wrong here please?
Re: get down the gym or ,lose your benefits!!
Exactly -
The benefot culture sucks for those that choose to actually work for a living. Those that done and work the system and reap the benefits are indeed theiving from those that do work.
I know someone that had the same experiance on holiday but they worked for the DHSS so they ensured that they took loads of pictures and didnt reveal too much about what they did, think they made out they worked for the health service.....
Long story short when he got back he swung into action traced them and then carried out a full investigation.....
The things that he was using to obtain benefit sore back and inability to stand, all those issues kicked into touch. I believe it hit the local papers too and the man and wife ended up going through the courts as the deciet was at a level that eventually ended up doing a custodial service.
Actually Id say I was pretty glad to hear the outcome - here I am working away and they were milking those like me to live a comfortable life...
Id go a visit him in jail if I knew where he was and piss in his tea the lazy fucker.
The benefot culture sucks for those that choose to actually work for a living. Those that done and work the system and reap the benefits are indeed theiving from those that do work.
I know someone that had the same experiance on holiday but they worked for the DHSS so they ensured that they took loads of pictures and didnt reveal too much about what they did, think they made out they worked for the health service.....
Long story short when he got back he swung into action traced them and then carried out a full investigation.....
The things that he was using to obtain benefit sore back and inability to stand, all those issues kicked into touch. I believe it hit the local papers too and the man and wife ended up going through the courts as the deciet was at a level that eventually ended up doing a custodial service.
Actually Id say I was pretty glad to hear the outcome - here I am working away and they were milking those like me to live a comfortable life...
Id go a visit him in jail if I knew where he was and piss in his tea the lazy fucker.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
William
"The benefot culture sucks for those that choose to actually work for a living"
Only for those poeple who cannot imagine being unemployed themselves and believe that they will have a god given right to work for the rest of their lives even though huge numbers are being made unemployed.
People defraud the benefit system. Fortunately by the government's own figures it is a minute fraction of the people who avoid and or evade tax.
Only for those poeple who cannot imagine being unemployed themselves and believe that they will have a god given right to work for the rest of their lives even though huge numbers are being made unemployed.
People defraud the benefit system. Fortunately by the government's own figures it is a minute fraction of the people who avoid and or evade tax.
Re: get down the gym or ,lose your benefits!!
No one has atonement with dregs like this getting so e deserved comeuppance but when the manpower and resources needed to do the are repeatedly stripped away in the push for efficiency "savings" it makes a Mockery of the talk of getting tough on scrounges.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: get down the gym or ,lose your benefits!!
Cuntybollocks
Do you believe everything that people who you have never met before, tell you?
A decent hotel and flight to Tenerife at by far the most expensive time of year for a family of four? No help from anybody else in their family? No work on the side?
People commit benefit fraud. People who dont pay tax commit fraud. I hear successful robbers have a "fairly decent lifestyle". You may have heard of the ATOS project which is interviewing every disabled person and doing a very good job of terrorising the disabled apparently including terminal cancer patients.
THe government's own estimate of benefit fraud and error is here
Channel 4's estimate of the "black" economy can be found here for comparison. Benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to tax evasion and tax avoidance.
Given the attempt of the government to drive down benefit rates, there is absolutely no way the government would actively underestimate benefit fraud.
The government is determined that the obsession with the unemployed benefits by some of the employed, some of who regularly post on here, will stop them concentrating on the real issue - why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and the last 20 years has seen the most ferocious attack on living standards for Joe Public.
Do you believe everything that people who you have never met before, tell you?
A decent hotel and flight to Tenerife at by far the most expensive time of year for a family of four? No help from anybody else in their family? No work on the side?
People commit benefit fraud. People who dont pay tax commit fraud. I hear successful robbers have a "fairly decent lifestyle". You may have heard of the ATOS project which is interviewing every disabled person and doing a very good job of terrorising the disabled apparently including terminal cancer patients.
THe government's own estimate of benefit fraud and error is here
Channel 4's estimate of the "black" economy can be found here for comparison. Benefit fraud is a drop in the ocean compared to tax evasion and tax avoidance.
Given the attempt of the government to drive down benefit rates, there is absolutely no way the government would actively underestimate benefit fraud.
The government is determined that the obsession with the unemployed benefits by some of the employed, some of who regularly post on here, will stop them concentrating on the real issue - why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and the last 20 years has seen the most ferocious attack on living standards for Joe Public.
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Porn Baron
- Posts: 993
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: get down the gym or ,lose your benefits!!
Seems like London is paying for the rest of the country.
So why don't they give tax breaks to open factories in other parts of the country? Why do they want everyone to work in the south east?
So why don't they give tax breaks to open factories in other parts of the country? Why do they want everyone to work in the south east?