Epic fail.
Multiculturalism
Multiculturalism
[_]> No Liberals were harmed during the making of this post.
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Sam Slater
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Re: Multiculturalism
Given Western Europe, Australasia and North American are the most prosperous, best educated and multi-cultural parts of the world, I'd like to you elaborate more on your 'epic fail' conclusion.
You're either wrong, or have a very broad definition of 'epic fail'.
You're either wrong, or have a very broad definition of 'epic fail'.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Mince pies
What a disaster! No question.
Re: Mince pies
I bet Flat Eric that Iman Johnson would answer first then Iman Slater, wrong order but same shite.
Merry fucking xmas.
Merry fucking xmas.
[_]> No Liberals were harmed during the making of this post.
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Mince pies
Can't see why you bothered. You created your own forum to slag off darkies, 'wimmin', queers and do-gooders in peace, didn't you?
Keep eating those lemons.
Keep eating those lemons.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Sam/lizard
Yes but it is so boring when you set up your own forum and only allow people who agree with you onto the forum.
Flat Eric "Liz, multiculturalism contains the seeds of the UK's destruction"
Lizard "Yes, it does, Eric. That is a very fine point if you don't mind me saying".
Flat Eric "Thank you Lizard. And that Sam Slater and David Johnson are typical metrosexuals"
Lizard, "Yes. another well put point, Eric. Cocoa?
Flat Eric "Yes please, Lizard and a hobnob if you can run to that"
Lizard, how about allowing me access to the forum again? THe reality is unintentionally funnier than a parody could ever be.
!wink!
Flat Eric "Liz, multiculturalism contains the seeds of the UK's destruction"
Lizard "Yes, it does, Eric. That is a very fine point if you don't mind me saying".
Flat Eric "Thank you Lizard. And that Sam Slater and David Johnson are typical metrosexuals"
Lizard, "Yes. another well put point, Eric. Cocoa?
Flat Eric "Yes please, Lizard and a hobnob if you can run to that"
Lizard, how about allowing me access to the forum again? THe reality is unintentionally funnier than a parody could ever be.
!wink!
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Multiculturalism
People won't be surprised to know that I'm keen to comment on this.
I said on another thread recently that multi-culturalism is basically a situation where there are a number of cultures in a country - but in common usage the term seems to mean a number of races and religions in a country. I said on the other thread that Nigeria is a multi-cultural society, in that there are large areas of Sikh people, Muslim people, and Christian people - but it is one race (everyone there is black). It would probably be described as a mono-cultural society if the most regularly used definition of 'multi-culturalism' is being considered, because the latter term usually refers to many races and religions (but specifically many races) as I said.
In terms of whether the present set-up (whatever term you would use to refer to it) in Britain has worked or not, I would say there is some success and some failings. We haven't had a civil war (although I predict we will have some years from now), most people seem to get along, but a lot of people haven't ditched their allegiance to where their family came from (which is what the planners of the post-war plural society hoped and expected would happen), many people don't speak English as their first language (again hoped and expected by the people who organised all this), many have no loyalty to here, and many want to impose their ways on this country - largely against the people's wishes - and the authorities and media often don't say anything because it might be 'racist'.
The level of sexism, and the anti-advancement of the female gender, that goes on in Islam in Britain is fine in the eyes of politicians and media because it is part of the 'rich multi-cultural society'. If white men in the UK demanded their female partners could only go outside if they put a sack over their head with two slits for eyes and they did not want them to have equality with men in the workplace, politics, or whatever, there would be an outcry. British Muslims doing it is OK. You have 'honour killings' in Britain , female genital mutilation, a situation where men in Britain can claim Benefits for two wives (none of the domestic lot can do so, only immigrants from certain countries
- all these things were not expected to happen when the post-war politicians flung our doors open and allowed vast numbers to come here. There were arguments to justify it: such as we had a labour shortage and people had a right to come from the former Empire, but it was never expected to have these negative things, and the numbers we got were far far greater than anyone hope or expected. I don't think politicians in the 1950's and 60's had any idea what they were doing, and Blair and Brown in the 1990's and 2000's couldn't give a toss about the effects of it all.
It concerns me that vast numbers of people don't speak English in the city I live in, you rarely hear it in the street or on the bus. I find it offensive when people look at my Poppy during Remembrance Week and wonder what the hell it is (whilst these people are taking all of the advantages that our soldiers died for). It offends me seeing foreign flags around London hanging off cars and out of people's windows during the Football World Cup and European cup - if I became a citizen of somewhere else and took money and protection from the country I am now in, I would view myself as now being someone of that place and show total loyalty to there. I don't like the fact white British people are now the minority in London (if black people became the minority in Lagos, Nigeria, no one would see that as a positive - even if a lot of the other people were born there). But there is nothing I can do about any of this because politicians don't care. I see positives in having an immigrant contingent here also though because they are doing the jobs no one else wants to do. Most people in working class areas of inner-London are on Benefits. Who will do these jobs if the locals won't do them? No one. So they have to bring people from overseas to do these jobs.
So there are positives and negatives to it all, it hasn't totally failed but has failed to a greater degree than the post-war architects of all this expected (they had no idea what they were doing anyway). I am troubled that when there are 10 or 20 million Muslims here, in a few generation's time, there will be major hostilities I am sure. Two very different ideologies in one place has generally always led to trouble. I can see separate homelands within Britain by then for Muslims, with different sets of rules. It troubles me that the proportion of people who are into Christmas here lessens all the time and I wouldn't be surprised if we will be calling it 'the holiday season' in a few years' time - like in the USA. I find even the prospect of that offensive, but no politician cares less about whether someone who falls into the other category, those not regarded as 'ethnic minority', think or feel.
We have been grossly let down by politicians, but immigrants have brought advantages to the country too. I am in favour of diversity but not of domination. The former is fine, any prospect of the latter is concerning - and I am concerned. But hey, who cares right? I'm just a white English bloke in England after all...
I said on another thread recently that multi-culturalism is basically a situation where there are a number of cultures in a country - but in common usage the term seems to mean a number of races and religions in a country. I said on the other thread that Nigeria is a multi-cultural society, in that there are large areas of Sikh people, Muslim people, and Christian people - but it is one race (everyone there is black). It would probably be described as a mono-cultural society if the most regularly used definition of 'multi-culturalism' is being considered, because the latter term usually refers to many races and religions (but specifically many races) as I said.
In terms of whether the present set-up (whatever term you would use to refer to it) in Britain has worked or not, I would say there is some success and some failings. We haven't had a civil war (although I predict we will have some years from now), most people seem to get along, but a lot of people haven't ditched their allegiance to where their family came from (which is what the planners of the post-war plural society hoped and expected would happen), many people don't speak English as their first language (again hoped and expected by the people who organised all this), many have no loyalty to here, and many want to impose their ways on this country - largely against the people's wishes - and the authorities and media often don't say anything because it might be 'racist'.
The level of sexism, and the anti-advancement of the female gender, that goes on in Islam in Britain is fine in the eyes of politicians and media because it is part of the 'rich multi-cultural society'. If white men in the UK demanded their female partners could only go outside if they put a sack over their head with two slits for eyes and they did not want them to have equality with men in the workplace, politics, or whatever, there would be an outcry. British Muslims doing it is OK. You have 'honour killings' in Britain , female genital mutilation, a situation where men in Britain can claim Benefits for two wives (none of the domestic lot can do so, only immigrants from certain countries
- all these things were not expected to happen when the post-war politicians flung our doors open and allowed vast numbers to come here. There were arguments to justify it: such as we had a labour shortage and people had a right to come from the former Empire, but it was never expected to have these negative things, and the numbers we got were far far greater than anyone hope or expected. I don't think politicians in the 1950's and 60's had any idea what they were doing, and Blair and Brown in the 1990's and 2000's couldn't give a toss about the effects of it all.
It concerns me that vast numbers of people don't speak English in the city I live in, you rarely hear it in the street or on the bus. I find it offensive when people look at my Poppy during Remembrance Week and wonder what the hell it is (whilst these people are taking all of the advantages that our soldiers died for). It offends me seeing foreign flags around London hanging off cars and out of people's windows during the Football World Cup and European cup - if I became a citizen of somewhere else and took money and protection from the country I am now in, I would view myself as now being someone of that place and show total loyalty to there. I don't like the fact white British people are now the minority in London (if black people became the minority in Lagos, Nigeria, no one would see that as a positive - even if a lot of the other people were born there). But there is nothing I can do about any of this because politicians don't care. I see positives in having an immigrant contingent here also though because they are doing the jobs no one else wants to do. Most people in working class areas of inner-London are on Benefits. Who will do these jobs if the locals won't do them? No one. So they have to bring people from overseas to do these jobs.
So there are positives and negatives to it all, it hasn't totally failed but has failed to a greater degree than the post-war architects of all this expected (they had no idea what they were doing anyway). I am troubled that when there are 10 or 20 million Muslims here, in a few generation's time, there will be major hostilities I am sure. Two very different ideologies in one place has generally always led to trouble. I can see separate homelands within Britain by then for Muslims, with different sets of rules. It troubles me that the proportion of people who are into Christmas here lessens all the time and I wouldn't be surprised if we will be calling it 'the holiday season' in a few years' time - like in the USA. I find even the prospect of that offensive, but no politician cares less about whether someone who falls into the other category, those not regarded as 'ethnic minority', think or feel.
We have been grossly let down by politicians, but immigrants have brought advantages to the country too. I am in favour of diversity but not of domination. The former is fine, any prospect of the latter is concerning - and I am concerned. But hey, who cares right? I'm just a white English bloke in England after all...
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Max
Wotcha
"We haven't had a civil war (although I predict we will have some years from now), "
Any evidence given that we have had nothing remotely like a civil war for the last 60 years?
"but a lot of people haven't ditched their allegiance to where their family came from (which is what the planners of the post-war plural society hoped and expected would happen"
Could I suggest you pop down to southern Spain and spend some time in the British expat community. Nor do I think it was what people hoped or expected. Commonsense would suggest otherwise and British expats are no different.
"many people don't speak English as their first language "
Again could I suggest that you travel to any British expat community anywhere in the world and check to what extent they have learned the relevant foreign language. Again that is how it is.
"and many want to impose their ways on this country - largely against the people's wishes "
In what way Max? Sharia law prevalent round your area? Worried about losing a hand over a disagreement over whether you paid for the milk? Who has exactly imposed what on you Max?
"The level of sexism, and the anti-advancement of the female gender, that goes on in Islam in Britain is fine in the eyes of politicians and media "
Got any evidence to back this up at all? Or is this another Maxism? If you want to see sexism in action you might want to have a night out in Blackpool . And I am sure you have read about the rampant gender inequality that goes on in pay and conditions in the UK generally?
"If white men in the UK demanded their female partners could only go outside if they put a sack over their head with two slits for eyes and they did not want them to have equality with men in the workplace, politics, or whatever, there would be an outcry."
Got any proof about how many Muslim blokes "demand" their female partners wear a "sack over their head"? Or is this another Maxism?
"You have honour killings"
Perhaps you would like to find out how many non Muslim men have wiped out their wives and/or kids because the wife has chosen to leave them or made noises about leaving them. THen compare that number with the number of honour killings. Let me know how you get on
" situation where men in Britain can claim Benefits for two wives"
This was only introduced in 2008 for existing families in the UK. It was about ?36 per additional wife. It's ending with the universal credit due to come in next year.
"It concerns me that vast numbers of people don't speak English in the city I live in, you rarely hear it in the street or on the bus."
Spent a load of time travelling round London in November and heard ENglish all the time.
"I find it offensive when people look at my Poppy during Remembrance Week and wonder what the hell it is "
Had a poppy on travelling round London in November. Never experienced any of that.
"if I became a citizen of somewhere else and took money and protection from the country I am now in, I would view myself as now being someone of that place and show total loyalty to there."
As I said, you need to get out more. Ask British expats in Spain or anywhere else whether they have total loyalty to "there" When I lived in Copenhagen, hardly any of the BRits I knew could speak the language and most of them spent their evenings watching the Premier League games in bars and drank Guinness.
"It troubles me that the proportion of people who are into Christmas here lessens all the time "
If you look at the census figures there has been a dramatic decline in CHristianity e.g. South Wales which is almost completely white British.
"We have been grossly let down by politicians"
True, but what's new.
If it bothers you so much and it seems to bother you enormously week in and week out, try and fix a job up in South Wales. Hardly any of them Muslim fellas there.
Have a nice evening.
"We haven't had a civil war (although I predict we will have some years from now), "
Any evidence given that we have had nothing remotely like a civil war for the last 60 years?
"but a lot of people haven't ditched their allegiance to where their family came from (which is what the planners of the post-war plural society hoped and expected would happen"
Could I suggest you pop down to southern Spain and spend some time in the British expat community. Nor do I think it was what people hoped or expected. Commonsense would suggest otherwise and British expats are no different.
"many people don't speak English as their first language "
Again could I suggest that you travel to any British expat community anywhere in the world and check to what extent they have learned the relevant foreign language. Again that is how it is.
"and many want to impose their ways on this country - largely against the people's wishes "
In what way Max? Sharia law prevalent round your area? Worried about losing a hand over a disagreement over whether you paid for the milk? Who has exactly imposed what on you Max?
"The level of sexism, and the anti-advancement of the female gender, that goes on in Islam in Britain is fine in the eyes of politicians and media "
Got any evidence to back this up at all? Or is this another Maxism? If you want to see sexism in action you might want to have a night out in Blackpool . And I am sure you have read about the rampant gender inequality that goes on in pay and conditions in the UK generally?
"If white men in the UK demanded their female partners could only go outside if they put a sack over their head with two slits for eyes and they did not want them to have equality with men in the workplace, politics, or whatever, there would be an outcry."
Got any proof about how many Muslim blokes "demand" their female partners wear a "sack over their head"? Or is this another Maxism?
"You have honour killings"
Perhaps you would like to find out how many non Muslim men have wiped out their wives and/or kids because the wife has chosen to leave them or made noises about leaving them. THen compare that number with the number of honour killings. Let me know how you get on
" situation where men in Britain can claim Benefits for two wives"
This was only introduced in 2008 for existing families in the UK. It was about ?36 per additional wife. It's ending with the universal credit due to come in next year.
"It concerns me that vast numbers of people don't speak English in the city I live in, you rarely hear it in the street or on the bus."
Spent a load of time travelling round London in November and heard ENglish all the time.
"I find it offensive when people look at my Poppy during Remembrance Week and wonder what the hell it is "
Had a poppy on travelling round London in November. Never experienced any of that.
"if I became a citizen of somewhere else and took money and protection from the country I am now in, I would view myself as now being someone of that place and show total loyalty to there."
As I said, you need to get out more. Ask British expats in Spain or anywhere else whether they have total loyalty to "there" When I lived in Copenhagen, hardly any of the BRits I knew could speak the language and most of them spent their evenings watching the Premier League games in bars and drank Guinness.
"It troubles me that the proportion of people who are into Christmas here lessens all the time "
If you look at the census figures there has been a dramatic decline in CHristianity e.g. South Wales which is almost completely white British.
"We have been grossly let down by politicians"
True, but what's new.
If it bothers you so much and it seems to bother you enormously week in and week out, try and fix a job up in South Wales. Hardly any of them Muslim fellas there.
Have a nice evening.
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
David
Hello David. I'll answer your points in capital letters as it make my replies distinct from my original writings and your replies to them.
Wotcha
"We haven't had a civil war (although I predict we will have some years from now), "
Any evidence given that we have had nothing remotely like a civil war for the last 60 years?
I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD, OR CAME NEAR TO HAVING, A CIVIL WAR 60 YEARS AGO. MAYBE I WAS LOOKING OUT OF THE WINDOW TOO OFTEN IN SCHOOL HISTORY LESSONS. BOTH MY PARENTS ARE OVER 70 AND MENTIONED NOTHING TO ME ABOUT A CIVIL WAR, OR A NEAR-ONE, DURING THEIR CHILDHOODS. MAYBE THEY FORGET TO TELL ME ABOUT IT. I SAID I PREDICTED ONE FOR THE FUTURE, AS TWO VERY DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES (WESTERN THINKING AND ISLAM) ARE INCOMPATIBLE - AND TWO VERY DIFFERENT WAYS OF THINKING, WITHIN ONE PLACE, HAS OFTEN LED TO CONFLICT. IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND EVIDENCE OF SOMETHING LIKELY TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE AS IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET.
"but a lot of people haven't ditched their allegiance to where their family came from (which is what the planners of the post-war plural society hoped and expected would happen"
Could I suggest you pop down to southern Spain and spend some time in the British expat community. Nor do I think it was what people hoped or expected. Commonsense would suggest otherwise and British expats are no different.
EX-PAT COMMUNITIES, AND EX-FOREIGNERS WHO ARE NOW NATURALISED CITIZENS OF A PLACE, PASSPORT HOLDERS, WILL PROBABLY BE THERE FOREVER, WHO GET MONEY AND PROTECTION FROM A COUNTRY, ETC, ARE DIFFERENT THINGS. AN EX-BRIT WITH A SPANISH PASSPORT IS NOW A SPANIARD, A BRIT EX-PAT IN SPAIN IS STILL A BRIT. IF SOMEONE IS BRITISH AND LIVING IN SPAIN FOR A FEW YEARS I DO THINK THOUGH, JUST OUT OF COURTESY AND RESPECT, THAT THEY SHOULD GET INTO THE 'SPAIN THING' AND ACT LIKE LOCALS. I THINK IT'S AN AFFRONT TO SPANISH PEOPLE THAT THERE ARE BARS AND SHOPS WITH ENGLISH WRITING ON THE FRONTS AND THAT THESE PEOPLE WALK AROUND SPEAKING ENGLISH ALL OVER THE PLACE. IF SOMEONE IS THERE BRIEFLY THEN THEY CAN ACT LIKE A BRIT, TO BE THERE LONGER - AND ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE 'NOW SPANISH' (PASSPORT HOLDER, CAN GET BENEFITS, LEGAL AID, ETC) THEY SHOULD BASICALLY ACT LIKE SPANIARDS.
"many people don't speak English as their first language "
Again could I suggest that you travel to any British expat community anywhere in the world and check to what extent they have learned the relevant foreign language. Again that is how it is.
SEE MY LAST ANSWER.
"and many want to impose their ways on this country - largely against the people's wishes "
In what way Max? Sharia law prevalent round your area? Worried about losing a hand over a disagreement over whether you paid for the milk? Who has exactly imposed what on you Max?
NO SHARIA LAW HERE - BUT SEXISM, LIMITS ON FREE SPEECH, AND ANTI GAY EQUALITY IS SOMETHING MUSLIMS WOULD LIKE TO IMPOSE HERE, AND THE FIRST ONE ALREADY DO ON MANY OF THEIR WOMEN. AS THEIR NUMBERS INCREASE THE CALL FOR THESE THINGS WILL ONLY BECOME GREATER. I AM AMAZED YOU CAN STILL BUY ALCOHOL IN CERTAIN AREAS OF LONDON.
"The level of sexism, and the anti-advancement of the female gender, that goes on in Islam in Britain is fine in the eyes of politicians and media "
Got any evidence to back this up at all? Or is this another Maxism? If you want to see sexism in action you might want to have a night out in Blackpool . And I am sure you have read about the rampant gender inequality that goes on in pay and conditions in the UK generally?
DO YOU EVER HEAR THE GUARDIAN NEWSPAPER, OR ANY OF THESE VOCAL LEFTIES, COMPLAINING ABOUT THE SUPPRESSION OF WOMEN IN MUSLIM COMMUNITIES IN BRITAIN? NO. YOU NEVER HEAR A PEEP OUT OF THEM. THEY WOULD BE FLAPPING LIKE TURKEY'S IF ANYONE ELSE DID IT.
"If white men in the UK demanded their female partners could only go outside if they put a sack over their head with two slits for eyes and they did not want them to have equality with men in the workplace, politics, or whatever, there would be an outcry."
Got any proof about how many Muslim blokes "demand" their female partners wear a "sack over their head"? Or is this another Maxism?
I SUPPOSE YOU THINK A WOMAN WEARS ONE OF THOSE THINGS AS A FASHION ACCESSORY. THEY ARE PUT ON SO OTHER MEN CAN'T EYE THE WOMAN UP. A MUSLIM COUPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET, SHE NOT WEARING HER HEAD COVERING, MAY MEAN PASSING MEN MIGHT GIVE HER A GLANCE. HER MAN WOULD NOT LIKE THIS, SO SHE GOES AROUND WITH THIS THING OVER HER HEAD. IT IS NOT DONE BECAUSE SHE WANTS IT, IT IS DONE TO APPEASE HER HUSBAND.
"You have honour killings"
Perhaps you would like to find out how many non Muslim men have wiped out their wives and/or kids because the wife has chosen to leave them or made noises about leaving them. THen compare that number with the number of honour killings. Let me know how you get on
ANY KILLING IS BAD - OBVIOUSLY. RELIGIOUS KILLINGS ARE SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTED BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING TO DO WITH A PARTICULAR RELIGION - SUGGESTING THERE WILL BE MORE OF THEM THE MORE THAT RELIGION EXPANDS WITHIN A COUNTRY.
" situation where men in Britain can claim Benefits for two wives"
This was only introduced in 2008 for existing families in the UK. It was about ?36 per additional wife. It's ending with the universal credit due to come in next year.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT WAS ?36.00 OR ?360.00. IT IS WRONG. THE TWO WIVES THING IS ILLEGAL IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT NOT FOR CERTAIN IMMIGRANTS. THIS IS A CLEAR CASE OF THE LAW NOT BEING ENFORCED ON THESE PEOPLE.
"It concerns me that vast numbers of people don't speak English in the city I live in, you rarely hear it in the street or on the bus."
Spent a load of time travelling round London in November and heard ENglish all the time.
I LIVE HERE DAVID, YOU JUST VISITED. I WOULDN'T MAKE THIS UP. IT IS RARELY HEARD IN THE STREET OR ON A BUS. SOME AMERICANS (EX-PATS) I KNOW IN LONDON EVEN SAID TO ME THEY'RE SURPRISED HOW LITTLE YOU HEAR IT SPOKEN.
"I find it offensive when people look at my Poppy during Remembrance Week and wonder what the hell it is "
Had a poppy on travelling round London in November. Never experienced any of that.
I HAVE.
"if I became a citizen of somewhere else and took money and protection from the country I am now in, I would view myself as now being someone of that place and show total loyalty to there."
As I said, you need to get out more. Ask British expats in Spain or anywhere else whether they have total loyalty to "there" When I lived in Copenhagen, hardly any of the BRits I knew could speak the language and most of them spent their evenings watching the Premier League games in bars and drank Guinness.
SEE MY COMMENT ABOVE ABOUT THE EX-PAT/NATURALISED CITIZEN THING.
I WOULD SAY THE SAME ABOUT BRITS IN COPENHAGEN AS SPAIN OR ANYWHERE ELSE.
"It troubles me that the proportion of people who are into Christmas here lessens all the time "
If you look at the census figures there has been a dramatic decline in CHristianity e.g. South Wales which is almost completely white British.
PEOPLE BROUGHT UP WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF A CHRISTIAN SOCIETY WILL CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT PRACTICING CHRISTIANS AS SUCH. I DO, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD, GO TO CHURCH, AND SO ON. THAT IS MY CULTURE, EVEN THOUGH I'M NOT RELIGIOUS.
"We have been grossly let down by politicians"
True, but what's new.
IT MAKES ME DESPAIR THOUGH. I SEE LITTLE POINT IN VOTING ANYMORE.
If it bothers you so much and it seems to bother you enormously week in and week out, try and fix a job up in South Wales. Hardly any of them Muslim fellas there.
MUSLIMS ARE FINE, AT LEAST THEY WOULD BE IF THEY ADAPTED TO WESTERN WAYS. THIS SEEMS UNLIKELY, NOT DESIRED BY THEM DO TO, AND THEREFORE WE SEEM TO HAVE LOTS OF PROBLEMS ON THE HORIZON AS THIS RELIGION GROWS AND GROWS. I HEARD THAT WOMEN IN SAUDI ARABIA AREN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO DRIVE CARS, LET ALONE HAVE EQUALITY WITH MEN IN THE WORKPLACE, VOTING, AND SO ON. OUR GRANDCHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE LIVING IN A VERY DIFFERENT SOCIETY TO ONE WE LIVE IN - A SOCIETY WITH MANY PROBLEMS, AND ONE THAT WILL BE VERY UNSTABLE.
Have a nice evening.
Wotcha
"We haven't had a civil war (although I predict we will have some years from now), "
Any evidence given that we have had nothing remotely like a civil war for the last 60 years?
I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD, OR CAME NEAR TO HAVING, A CIVIL WAR 60 YEARS AGO. MAYBE I WAS LOOKING OUT OF THE WINDOW TOO OFTEN IN SCHOOL HISTORY LESSONS. BOTH MY PARENTS ARE OVER 70 AND MENTIONED NOTHING TO ME ABOUT A CIVIL WAR, OR A NEAR-ONE, DURING THEIR CHILDHOODS. MAYBE THEY FORGET TO TELL ME ABOUT IT. I SAID I PREDICTED ONE FOR THE FUTURE, AS TWO VERY DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES (WESTERN THINKING AND ISLAM) ARE INCOMPATIBLE - AND TWO VERY DIFFERENT WAYS OF THINKING, WITHIN ONE PLACE, HAS OFTEN LED TO CONFLICT. IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND EVIDENCE OF SOMETHING LIKELY TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE AS IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET.
"but a lot of people haven't ditched their allegiance to where their family came from (which is what the planners of the post-war plural society hoped and expected would happen"
Could I suggest you pop down to southern Spain and spend some time in the British expat community. Nor do I think it was what people hoped or expected. Commonsense would suggest otherwise and British expats are no different.
EX-PAT COMMUNITIES, AND EX-FOREIGNERS WHO ARE NOW NATURALISED CITIZENS OF A PLACE, PASSPORT HOLDERS, WILL PROBABLY BE THERE FOREVER, WHO GET MONEY AND PROTECTION FROM A COUNTRY, ETC, ARE DIFFERENT THINGS. AN EX-BRIT WITH A SPANISH PASSPORT IS NOW A SPANIARD, A BRIT EX-PAT IN SPAIN IS STILL A BRIT. IF SOMEONE IS BRITISH AND LIVING IN SPAIN FOR A FEW YEARS I DO THINK THOUGH, JUST OUT OF COURTESY AND RESPECT, THAT THEY SHOULD GET INTO THE 'SPAIN THING' AND ACT LIKE LOCALS. I THINK IT'S AN AFFRONT TO SPANISH PEOPLE THAT THERE ARE BARS AND SHOPS WITH ENGLISH WRITING ON THE FRONTS AND THAT THESE PEOPLE WALK AROUND SPEAKING ENGLISH ALL OVER THE PLACE. IF SOMEONE IS THERE BRIEFLY THEN THEY CAN ACT LIKE A BRIT, TO BE THERE LONGER - AND ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE 'NOW SPANISH' (PASSPORT HOLDER, CAN GET BENEFITS, LEGAL AID, ETC) THEY SHOULD BASICALLY ACT LIKE SPANIARDS.
"many people don't speak English as their first language "
Again could I suggest that you travel to any British expat community anywhere in the world and check to what extent they have learned the relevant foreign language. Again that is how it is.
SEE MY LAST ANSWER.
"and many want to impose their ways on this country - largely against the people's wishes "
In what way Max? Sharia law prevalent round your area? Worried about losing a hand over a disagreement over whether you paid for the milk? Who has exactly imposed what on you Max?
NO SHARIA LAW HERE - BUT SEXISM, LIMITS ON FREE SPEECH, AND ANTI GAY EQUALITY IS SOMETHING MUSLIMS WOULD LIKE TO IMPOSE HERE, AND THE FIRST ONE ALREADY DO ON MANY OF THEIR WOMEN. AS THEIR NUMBERS INCREASE THE CALL FOR THESE THINGS WILL ONLY BECOME GREATER. I AM AMAZED YOU CAN STILL BUY ALCOHOL IN CERTAIN AREAS OF LONDON.
"The level of sexism, and the anti-advancement of the female gender, that goes on in Islam in Britain is fine in the eyes of politicians and media "
Got any evidence to back this up at all? Or is this another Maxism? If you want to see sexism in action you might want to have a night out in Blackpool . And I am sure you have read about the rampant gender inequality that goes on in pay and conditions in the UK generally?
DO YOU EVER HEAR THE GUARDIAN NEWSPAPER, OR ANY OF THESE VOCAL LEFTIES, COMPLAINING ABOUT THE SUPPRESSION OF WOMEN IN MUSLIM COMMUNITIES IN BRITAIN? NO. YOU NEVER HEAR A PEEP OUT OF THEM. THEY WOULD BE FLAPPING LIKE TURKEY'S IF ANYONE ELSE DID IT.
"If white men in the UK demanded their female partners could only go outside if they put a sack over their head with two slits for eyes and they did not want them to have equality with men in the workplace, politics, or whatever, there would be an outcry."
Got any proof about how many Muslim blokes "demand" their female partners wear a "sack over their head"? Or is this another Maxism?
I SUPPOSE YOU THINK A WOMAN WEARS ONE OF THOSE THINGS AS A FASHION ACCESSORY. THEY ARE PUT ON SO OTHER MEN CAN'T EYE THE WOMAN UP. A MUSLIM COUPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET, SHE NOT WEARING HER HEAD COVERING, MAY MEAN PASSING MEN MIGHT GIVE HER A GLANCE. HER MAN WOULD NOT LIKE THIS, SO SHE GOES AROUND WITH THIS THING OVER HER HEAD. IT IS NOT DONE BECAUSE SHE WANTS IT, IT IS DONE TO APPEASE HER HUSBAND.
"You have honour killings"
Perhaps you would like to find out how many non Muslim men have wiped out their wives and/or kids because the wife has chosen to leave them or made noises about leaving them. THen compare that number with the number of honour killings. Let me know how you get on
ANY KILLING IS BAD - OBVIOUSLY. RELIGIOUS KILLINGS ARE SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTED BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING TO DO WITH A PARTICULAR RELIGION - SUGGESTING THERE WILL BE MORE OF THEM THE MORE THAT RELIGION EXPANDS WITHIN A COUNTRY.
" situation where men in Britain can claim Benefits for two wives"
This was only introduced in 2008 for existing families in the UK. It was about ?36 per additional wife. It's ending with the universal credit due to come in next year.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT WAS ?36.00 OR ?360.00. IT IS WRONG. THE TWO WIVES THING IS ILLEGAL IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT NOT FOR CERTAIN IMMIGRANTS. THIS IS A CLEAR CASE OF THE LAW NOT BEING ENFORCED ON THESE PEOPLE.
"It concerns me that vast numbers of people don't speak English in the city I live in, you rarely hear it in the street or on the bus."
Spent a load of time travelling round London in November and heard ENglish all the time.
I LIVE HERE DAVID, YOU JUST VISITED. I WOULDN'T MAKE THIS UP. IT IS RARELY HEARD IN THE STREET OR ON A BUS. SOME AMERICANS (EX-PATS) I KNOW IN LONDON EVEN SAID TO ME THEY'RE SURPRISED HOW LITTLE YOU HEAR IT SPOKEN.
"I find it offensive when people look at my Poppy during Remembrance Week and wonder what the hell it is "
Had a poppy on travelling round London in November. Never experienced any of that.
I HAVE.
"if I became a citizen of somewhere else and took money and protection from the country I am now in, I would view myself as now being someone of that place and show total loyalty to there."
As I said, you need to get out more. Ask British expats in Spain or anywhere else whether they have total loyalty to "there" When I lived in Copenhagen, hardly any of the BRits I knew could speak the language and most of them spent their evenings watching the Premier League games in bars and drank Guinness.
SEE MY COMMENT ABOVE ABOUT THE EX-PAT/NATURALISED CITIZEN THING.
I WOULD SAY THE SAME ABOUT BRITS IN COPENHAGEN AS SPAIN OR ANYWHERE ELSE.
"It troubles me that the proportion of people who are into Christmas here lessens all the time "
If you look at the census figures there has been a dramatic decline in CHristianity e.g. South Wales which is almost completely white British.
PEOPLE BROUGHT UP WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF A CHRISTIAN SOCIETY WILL CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT PRACTICING CHRISTIANS AS SUCH. I DO, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD, GO TO CHURCH, AND SO ON. THAT IS MY CULTURE, EVEN THOUGH I'M NOT RELIGIOUS.
"We have been grossly let down by politicians"
True, but what's new.
IT MAKES ME DESPAIR THOUGH. I SEE LITTLE POINT IN VOTING ANYMORE.
If it bothers you so much and it seems to bother you enormously week in and week out, try and fix a job up in South Wales. Hardly any of them Muslim fellas there.
MUSLIMS ARE FINE, AT LEAST THEY WOULD BE IF THEY ADAPTED TO WESTERN WAYS. THIS SEEMS UNLIKELY, NOT DESIRED BY THEM DO TO, AND THEREFORE WE SEEM TO HAVE LOTS OF PROBLEMS ON THE HORIZON AS THIS RELIGION GROWS AND GROWS. I HEARD THAT WOMEN IN SAUDI ARABIA AREN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO DRIVE CARS, LET ALONE HAVE EQUALITY WITH MEN IN THE WORKPLACE, VOTING, AND SO ON. OUR GRANDCHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE LIVING IN A VERY DIFFERENT SOCIETY TO ONE WE LIVE IN - A SOCIETY WITH MANY PROBLEMS, AND ONE THAT WILL BE VERY UNSTABLE.
Have a nice evening.
-
David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Max
"I DIDN'T KNOW WE HAD, OR CAME NEAR TO HAVING, A CIVIL WAR 60 YEARS AGO."
Err, the point I am making is that largescale immigration from different cultures started with the post Second World War period, fifty or 60 years ago.
"AN EX-BRIT WITH A SPANISH PASSPORT IS NOW A SPANIARD, A BRIT EX-PAT IN SPAIN IS STILL A BRIT. "
You are completely and utterly wrong. By being in the EU they can stay there as long as they like. They can obtain benefits there the same as Spanish people and the rules of that country. Their impact is exactly the same given the overwhelming majority of expats do not speak Spanish fluently. English people in Denmark could obtain exactly the same benefits as native Danes.
"NO SHARIA LAW HERE - BUT SEXISM, LIMITS ON FREE SPEECH, AND ANTI GAY EQUALITY IS SOMETHING MUSLIMS WOULD LIKE TO IMPOSE HERE, AND THE FIRST ONE ALREADY DO ON MANY OF THEIR WOMEN. AS THEIR NUMBERS INCREASE THE CALL FOR THESE THINGS WILL ONLY BECOME GREATER. I AM AMAZED YOU CAN STILL BUY ALCOHOL IN CERTAIN AREAS OF LONDON.
You have completely misunderstood my question. To repeat the question was Who has exactly imposed what on you Max?
And your answer is clearly nothing. Has a Muslim been sexist towards you?
"I SUPPOSE YOU THINK A WOMAN WEARS ONE OF THOSE THINGS AS A FASHION ACCESSORY. THEY ARE PUT ON SO OTHER MEN CAN'T EYE THE WOMAN UP. A MUSLIM COUPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET, SHE NOT WEARING HER HEAD COVERING, MAY MEAN PASSING MEN MIGHT GIVE HER A GLANCE. HER MAN WOULD NOT LIKE THIS, SO SHE GOES AROUND WITH THIS THING OVER HER HEAD. IT IS NOT DONE BECAUSE SHE WANTS IT, IT IS DONE TO APPEASE HER HUSBAND".
Dont be silly. It is worn as part of their religious beliefs. Dont you think more can be less, though Max!!!! Err, Alf that bloke Max Tranmere keeps eying me up. Okay Enid, I'll just go over and hit him with my pint glass.
"OBVIOUSLY. RELIGIOUS KILLINGS ARE SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTEd"
You havent answered the question. And it is highlighted. You are wrong.
If people want to celebrate Xmas they will do. If they dont, they wont. If people want to celebrate Eid they will do, If they dont they wont. If people want to celebrate Diwali, they will do. If they dont they wont.
"IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT WAS ?36.00 OR ?360.00.
"
Err do I have to repeat myself. It was started in 2008. It stops next year.
"MUSLIMS ARE FINE, AT LEAST THEY WOULD BE IF THEY ADAPTED TO WESTERN WAYS"
Yes if everyone was like you Max, wouldnt it be wonderful? But they aren't. Get over it. No-one has been sexist to you. No-one has chopped your hand off. No-one has stopped you putting your Xmas tree up etc etc.
Get on with your life and stop endlessly worrying. This is my last comment in this thread to you. I will leave you to worry and despair. Sorry!
Err, the point I am making is that largescale immigration from different cultures started with the post Second World War period, fifty or 60 years ago.
"AN EX-BRIT WITH A SPANISH PASSPORT IS NOW A SPANIARD, A BRIT EX-PAT IN SPAIN IS STILL A BRIT. "
You are completely and utterly wrong. By being in the EU they can stay there as long as they like. They can obtain benefits there the same as Spanish people and the rules of that country. Their impact is exactly the same given the overwhelming majority of expats do not speak Spanish fluently. English people in Denmark could obtain exactly the same benefits as native Danes.
"NO SHARIA LAW HERE - BUT SEXISM, LIMITS ON FREE SPEECH, AND ANTI GAY EQUALITY IS SOMETHING MUSLIMS WOULD LIKE TO IMPOSE HERE, AND THE FIRST ONE ALREADY DO ON MANY OF THEIR WOMEN. AS THEIR NUMBERS INCREASE THE CALL FOR THESE THINGS WILL ONLY BECOME GREATER. I AM AMAZED YOU CAN STILL BUY ALCOHOL IN CERTAIN AREAS OF LONDON.
You have completely misunderstood my question. To repeat the question was Who has exactly imposed what on you Max?
And your answer is clearly nothing. Has a Muslim been sexist towards you?
"I SUPPOSE YOU THINK A WOMAN WEARS ONE OF THOSE THINGS AS A FASHION ACCESSORY. THEY ARE PUT ON SO OTHER MEN CAN'T EYE THE WOMAN UP. A MUSLIM COUPLE WALKING DOWN THE STREET, SHE NOT WEARING HER HEAD COVERING, MAY MEAN PASSING MEN MIGHT GIVE HER A GLANCE. HER MAN WOULD NOT LIKE THIS, SO SHE GOES AROUND WITH THIS THING OVER HER HEAD. IT IS NOT DONE BECAUSE SHE WANTS IT, IT IS DONE TO APPEASE HER HUSBAND".
Dont be silly. It is worn as part of their religious beliefs. Dont you think more can be less, though Max!!!! Err, Alf that bloke Max Tranmere keeps eying me up. Okay Enid, I'll just go over and hit him with my pint glass.
"OBVIOUSLY. RELIGIOUS KILLINGS ARE SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTEd"
You havent answered the question. And it is highlighted. You are wrong.
If people want to celebrate Xmas they will do. If they dont, they wont. If people want to celebrate Eid they will do, If they dont they wont. If people want to celebrate Diwali, they will do. If they dont they wont.
"IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT WAS ?36.00 OR ?360.00.
"
Err do I have to repeat myself. It was started in 2008. It stops next year.
"MUSLIMS ARE FINE, AT LEAST THEY WOULD BE IF THEY ADAPTED TO WESTERN WAYS"
Yes if everyone was like you Max, wouldnt it be wonderful? But they aren't. Get over it. No-one has been sexist to you. No-one has chopped your hand off. No-one has stopped you putting your Xmas tree up etc etc.
Get on with your life and stop endlessly worrying. This is my last comment in this thread to you. I will leave you to worry and despair. Sorry!