Leo Blair
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Arginald Valleywater
- Posts: 4288
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Leo Blair
A shame he had children. If it wasn't for his yank loving wanker of a son we wouldn't have lost all those lives in Iraq and Afghanistan and radicalised half the Muslim world against Britain.
Re: Leo Blair
Blair was in the chair at the time.
Michael Howard was leader of the opposition when Blair sent the troops to Iraq.
Howard criticised Blair for dragging his feet over the delay in signing up to Bush's plans and said to effect we should have signed-up to the plan straight away without this dithering at the UN trying to get new UN resolutions.
If we had had a Tory Government at the time the result would have been the same.
That goes for Afghanistan as well.
Anyone who thinks that Howard, Hague, Duncan-Smith, Cameron or God Help us Boris, wouldn't have had British troops fighting shoulder to shoulder with our American allies in the same circumstances is living in cloud cuckoo land.
The last PM to stand-up to the yanks was Harold Wilson in the 1960's.
I don't think we will ever see a UK Government say "No" to the Americans ever again. I don't think the US would ever allow us to elect a government where their was a chance of the PM saying "No way mate".
That goes for Conservative, Labour or any shade of coalition you like.
Michael Howard was leader of the opposition when Blair sent the troops to Iraq.
Howard criticised Blair for dragging his feet over the delay in signing up to Bush's plans and said to effect we should have signed-up to the plan straight away without this dithering at the UN trying to get new UN resolutions.
If we had had a Tory Government at the time the result would have been the same.
That goes for Afghanistan as well.
Anyone who thinks that Howard, Hague, Duncan-Smith, Cameron or God Help us Boris, wouldn't have had British troops fighting shoulder to shoulder with our American allies in the same circumstances is living in cloud cuckoo land.
The last PM to stand-up to the yanks was Harold Wilson in the 1960's.
I don't think we will ever see a UK Government say "No" to the Americans ever again. I don't think the US would ever allow us to elect a government where their was a chance of the PM saying "No way mate".
That goes for Conservative, Labour or any shade of coalition you like.
Re: Leo Blair
Not strictly true Spider, "evidence" of WMD was presented remember, the Govenment in charge at the time when the desicion was made was Tony Blair's new labour, the opposition is bound to support them when the desicion was made.
Tony Blair was responsible for taking us into the war. end of. the opposition all sides apart from the greens supported him, but it was HIS desicion,
Anyway, RIP Leo Blair,he was someones dad and deserves respect, I'm sure he was a decent guy, as was Blair before he made that catastophic judgement.
Tony Blair was responsible for taking us into the war. end of. the opposition all sides apart from the greens supported him, but it was HIS desicion,
Anyway, RIP Leo Blair,he was someones dad and deserves respect, I'm sure he was a decent guy, as was Blair before he made that catastophic judgement.
[_]> No Liberals were harmed during the making of this post.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Spider/Lizard
Spider is absolutely correct.
"Not strictly true Spider, "evidence" of WMD was presented remember, the Govenment in charge at the time when the desicion was made was Tony Blair's new labour, the opposition is bound to support them when the desicion was made."
The Tories did not need a dodgy dossier to be in favour of war. For example take Hague's statement in the House of Commons in September 2002 when his line was even more hawkish than Labour's which is saying something. This is reflected in the fact that a much higher proportion of Tory MPs voted for the war then did Labour MPs.
"Does the Prime Minister recollect that, in the half-century history of various states acquiring nuclear capabilities, in almost every case?from the Soviet Union in 1949 to Pakistan in 1998?their ability to do so has been greatly underestimated and understated by intelligence sources at the time? Estimates today of Iraq taking several years to acquire a nuclear device should be seen in that context, and within that margin of error. Given that, and the information from defectors five years after the Gulf war, that 400 nuclear sites and installations had been concealed in farmhouses and even schools in Iraq, is there not at least a significant risk of the utter catastrophe of Iraq possessing a nuclear device without warning, some time in the next couple of years? In that case, does not the risk of leaving the regime on its course today far outweigh the risk of taking action quite soon??
WIth regard to the opposition votes, you are wrong, Liz. All the Lib Dems, to their credit, voted against the war.
Yes it was Blair and the Labour government's decision and to their eternal shame they made the wrong one. However as Spider points out anyone who thinks that it would have been any different under a Tory government at the time is living in "cloud cuckoo land "
"Not strictly true Spider, "evidence" of WMD was presented remember, the Govenment in charge at the time when the desicion was made was Tony Blair's new labour, the opposition is bound to support them when the desicion was made."
The Tories did not need a dodgy dossier to be in favour of war. For example take Hague's statement in the House of Commons in September 2002 when his line was even more hawkish than Labour's which is saying something. This is reflected in the fact that a much higher proportion of Tory MPs voted for the war then did Labour MPs.
"Does the Prime Minister recollect that, in the half-century history of various states acquiring nuclear capabilities, in almost every case?from the Soviet Union in 1949 to Pakistan in 1998?their ability to do so has been greatly underestimated and understated by intelligence sources at the time? Estimates today of Iraq taking several years to acquire a nuclear device should be seen in that context, and within that margin of error. Given that, and the information from defectors five years after the Gulf war, that 400 nuclear sites and installations had been concealed in farmhouses and even schools in Iraq, is there not at least a significant risk of the utter catastrophe of Iraq possessing a nuclear device without warning, some time in the next couple of years? In that case, does not the risk of leaving the regime on its course today far outweigh the risk of taking action quite soon??
WIth regard to the opposition votes, you are wrong, Liz. All the Lib Dems, to their credit, voted against the war.
Yes it was Blair and the Labour government's decision and to their eternal shame they made the wrong one. However as Spider points out anyone who thinks that it would have been any different under a Tory government at the time is living in "cloud cuckoo land "
Re: Leo Blair
I love it when people say "end of" and think that has ended the debate.
Another one that makes me smile is when they say "period" at the end of the sentence and think it has the same effect.
I always image them doing it whilst stamping their foot and screaming "if you don't shut up I'm going to scream and scream until I'm sick".
I was replying to the statement..
"If it wasn't for his yank loving wanker of a son we wouldn't have lost all those lives in Iraq and Afghanistan and radicalised half the Muslim world against Britain."
I say if it hadn't of been Blair it would have been someone else. The result would have been the same.
The only circumstances I could have seen us keeping out of Iraq would have been if Robin Cook or Claire Short had been Prime Minister and there was no way in a million years that was going to happen.
Another one that makes me smile is when they say "period" at the end of the sentence and think it has the same effect.
I always image them doing it whilst stamping their foot and screaming "if you don't shut up I'm going to scream and scream until I'm sick".
I was replying to the statement..
"If it wasn't for his yank loving wanker of a son we wouldn't have lost all those lives in Iraq and Afghanistan and radicalised half the Muslim world against Britain."
I say if it hadn't of been Blair it would have been someone else. The result would have been the same.
The only circumstances I could have seen us keeping out of Iraq would have been if Robin Cook or Claire Short had been Prime Minister and there was no way in a million years that was going to happen.
Re: Leo Blair
Spider, the reason I say "end of", which is not a phrase I use much, nor do I like it, however, regardless of that, whether DJ or yourself like it, Tony Blair took this country to war. You have no proof that the Tories would have done the same, they might have eventually, we will never know, this is true in all major events. ie:
Thatcher invaded and recaptured the Falklands!, or did she? according to you reasoning she plainly didn't.
Heath took us into Europe, no he didn't or did he?
Thatcher invaded and recaptured the Falklands!, or did she? according to you reasoning she plainly didn't.
Heath took us into Europe, no he didn't or did he?
[_]> No Liberals were harmed during the making of this post.
Re: Leo Blair
What about 'simple as', 'without a doubt' and 'no two ways about it' ?
People desperately wishing to appear decisive, knowledgeable and authoritative. Bit laughable really.
People desperately wishing to appear decisive, knowledgeable and authoritative. Bit laughable really.
Re: Leo Blair
Michael Howard was leader of the opposition when Blair sent the troops to Iraq.
Howard criticised Blair for dragging his feet over the delay in signing up to Bush's plans and said to effect we should have signed-up to the plan straight away without this dithering at the UN trying to get new UN resolutions.
This suggests to me that if the Conservatives had been in Government they would have signed-up to Bush's "coalition of the willing" and British troops would have been "fighting shoulder to shoulder with our American Allies".
Michael would have given his right arm to have been able to stand up at a Conservative Party conference and use that phrase to the assembled party members.
Sad thing is you could substitute Michael's name there with Hague, Duncan Smith, Cameron, Boris, or I'm sure any of the names from Labour's front bench.
Howard criticised Blair for dragging his feet over the delay in signing up to Bush's plans and said to effect we should have signed-up to the plan straight away without this dithering at the UN trying to get new UN resolutions.
This suggests to me that if the Conservatives had been in Government they would have signed-up to Bush's "coalition of the willing" and British troops would have been "fighting shoulder to shoulder with our American Allies".
Michael would have given his right arm to have been able to stand up at a Conservative Party conference and use that phrase to the assembled party members.
Sad thing is you could substitute Michael's name there with Hague, Duncan Smith, Cameron, Boris, or I'm sure any of the names from Labour's front bench.