Scottish Independence

[The Invader]

I'm proud to be both Scottish and British and see no reason to change what we currently have. Still live in Scotland.

Many of the pro-SNP/pro-independence (I mention both since there is a difference) people I have encountered over the years are nothing more than anti-English zealots. I'm not referring to playground football banter here, but really bitter attitudes and a chip on the shoulder about the English/the Union.

In a broader sense, I've never liked the idea of nationalism or patriotism, be it Scottish, British, American or any other country for that matter.

[Porn Baron]

I don't think there is anything wrong with patriotism. Loving your country it's people and culture.

To me Nationalism is thinking your superior to others and showing them disrespect.

Hope the Scots get what they want.

[Toliverwist]

I don't buy the idea that Scotland could not remain solvent as an independent nation. Small nations can prosper.

The Isle of Man, which is not a member of the EU, has a surplus every year.

Singapore
"During the interview, Mr Fareed noted that Singapore was growing faster than perhaps any other country in the world."

[Toliverwist]

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David Johnson
Date: 10-21-12 17:37

"Then we can spend English taxes on English residents only."

I don't think you have thought this through Argie. Half Scottish and only a few miles from the border? IF Scotland gets independence they will automatically have to apply to become a member of the EU which could take years.

I would suspect that given Scotland will be outside the EU for quite a lengthy period, Call me Dave will take advantage of this gap to get shot of the Scottish and "half-breeds" like yourself in trasports to north of the border or "New Hadrians Wall" as it will probably become, manned with guards with sub-machine guns and searchlights.

I think you could do well in Scotland Argie, with your right wing Toryism and your love of "bum chums". You would be very popular in Easterhouse!

PS Don't even think of being an asylum seeker, Argie. Call me Dave is very harsh on that kind of malarkey!
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1) Reductio ad absurdum

2) Hadrian's wall is NOT the English/Scottish border.
When will people start realising this?

[Toliverwist]

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Porn Baron
Date: 10-24-12 19:20

I don't think there is anything wrong with patriotism. Loving your country it's people and culture.

To me Nationalism is thinking your superior to others and showing them disrespect.

Hope the Scots get what they want.
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I can't agree.

There was no universal suffrage in 1707. The union was never authorised by the peoples of the two nations.

To me nationalism merely means that you want;
# Your nation to be a nation, not part of an artifical construct which had no democratic mandate to come into existence - 'Bought and sold for English gold' comes to mind;
# Looking after your national interest.

____________________________
When the draft Treaty of Union was made public in October 1706, there were riots on the streets of Scottish towns and cities. In Edinburgh a 'villanous and outragious mobb' threatened and insulted judges and Members of the Scottish Parliament.
____________________________

[David Johnson]

"Hadrian's wall is NOT the English/Scottish border.
When will people start realising this?"

I know. I have walked parts of it. Indeed I have peered into the latrine house at Housesteads Roman camp.

It was a joke.....clearly. Do lighten up!

[Robches]

Toliverwist wrote:



>
> There was no universal suffrage in 1707. The union was never
> authorised by the peoples of the two nations.
>

The union came about because Scotland had bankrupted itself over the disastrous Darien scheme. I think that is the reason so many Scots have a chip on their shoulder about the English and the union. England never conquered Scotland, Scotland ruined itself and had to be rescued from the consequences of its folly. No good turn ever goes unpunished as they say.

[Toliverwist]

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Robches
Date: 10-26-12 19:09

Toliverwist wrote:



>
> There was no universal suffrage in 1707. The union was never
> authorised by the peoples of the two nations.
>

The union came about because Scotland had bankrupted itself over the disastrous Darien scheme. I think that is the reason so many Scots have a chip on their shoulder about the English and the union. England never conquered Scotland, Scotland ruined itself and had to be rescued from the consequences of its folly. No good turn ever goes unpunished as they say.
***********************************

The people of Scotland still weren't asked whether they wanted rescuing by a union with England, and the people of England still weren't asked whether rhey wanted to rescue Scotland by a union.

The peoples never had opportunity to authorise the actions of the two governments. The union was an imposition with no democratic legitimacy, and if only the people of Scotland now get a referendum, then, in the event of a vote for the union, it will still have no democratic legitimacy.

[Robches]

Toliverwist wrote:

>
>
> The people of Scotland still weren't asked whether they wanted
> rescuing by a union with England, and the people of England
> still weren't asked whether rhey wanted to rescue Scotland by a
> union.
>
> The peoples never had opportunity to authorise the actions of
> the two governments. The union was an imposition with no
> democratic legitimacy, and if only the people of Scotland now
> get a referendum, then, in the event of a vote for the union,
> it will still have no democratic legitimacy.
>

If you are trying to impart a modern concept of democratic legitimacy to 1707 then you are wasting your time. You cannot judge things done then by our standards. The fact is Scotland had bankrupted itself, and English intervention was needed to save it. The price was the union, which secured England from Scotland's flirtations with France. Scotland has always been vital to the defence of the British Isles right up to the end of the Cold War. There is no way the British government would even have been willing to have this discussion before the demise of the USSR, the risks would have been too great.

[Arginald Valleywater]

Talked to a couple of Dumfriesshire lads at our Golf Club today. Both have jobs that criss cross the border so think the idea of independence is unworkable. They think Salmond is backed by some not quite kosher money men with anicent ideas of some ongoing conflict that simply doesn't exist.