"And I reiterate my view that it's not always fair to judge people based on the characters of others, whom just happen to agree with them on certain things"
Agreed and I havent suggested otherwise.
"Can we judge Lenin or Marx for what Stalinism became?"
No but we can probably judge Stalin for Stalinism.
"Isn't it possible that two people can hold the same view but for different reasons"
Agreed and I havent suggested otherwise.
THe point which you don't address is that COndell throughout his videos tarnishes an entire religion on the actions of a few. Just like the BNP and EDL. I am not stating that he is a member of the BNP or EDL. WHat I am stating is that his approach and reasoning is very similar to theirs and the resulting view of Islam based on that approach is very similar to the EDL and BNP which is hey hey, why he is very popular in both organisations.
Thats it. Dont read anything else into it.
Interesting Pat Condell video...
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Samuel...
[quote]"And I reiterate my view that it's not always fair to judge people based on the characters of others, whom just happen to agree with them on certain things"
Agreed and I havent suggested otherwise.[/quote]
Good. Then you agree that it was unfair to use the EDL to smear Pat Condell.........which you did do. No denying it, really.
[quote]No but we can probably judge Stalin for Stalinism.[/quote]
Doesn't work, unless you have evidence Pat Condell is the iconic leader and creator of the EDL. The fact is Stalin was a supporter of Marx and Lenin. If some Thatcherite put links up of the atrocities Stalinism caused, to smear Karl Marx, you'd have pointed out the exact same thing I have - at least I hope you would have.
[quote]THe point which you don't address is that COndell throughout his videos tarnishes an entire religion on the actions of a few. Just like the BNP and EDL.[/quote]
A religion is an idea or philosophy and he can trash away as far as I'm concerned. The EDL not only trash the religion but use it as an excuse to go up and down the country being a bunch of racist cunts. There's the difference.
[quote]WHat I am stating is that his approach and reasoning is very similar to theirs and the resulting view of Islam based on that approach is very similar to the EDL and BNP which is hey hey, why he is very popular in both organisations.[/quote]
But I think the motives for bashing Islam are different. I've never heard Pat Condell utter a racist word......I've seen people within the EDL, on telly, shout racist abuse and do Nazi salutes
Pat Condell is a wanker. The EDL are racist wankers. I think the EDL are worse and you're being unfair using them to attack Pat Condell because, like me, you think he's a cock.
Agreed and I havent suggested otherwise.[/quote]
Good. Then you agree that it was unfair to use the EDL to smear Pat Condell.........which you did do. No denying it, really.
[quote]No but we can probably judge Stalin for Stalinism.[/quote]
Doesn't work, unless you have evidence Pat Condell is the iconic leader and creator of the EDL. The fact is Stalin was a supporter of Marx and Lenin. If some Thatcherite put links up of the atrocities Stalinism caused, to smear Karl Marx, you'd have pointed out the exact same thing I have - at least I hope you would have.
[quote]THe point which you don't address is that COndell throughout his videos tarnishes an entire religion on the actions of a few. Just like the BNP and EDL.[/quote]
A religion is an idea or philosophy and he can trash away as far as I'm concerned. The EDL not only trash the religion but use it as an excuse to go up and down the country being a bunch of racist cunts. There's the difference.
[quote]WHat I am stating is that his approach and reasoning is very similar to theirs and the resulting view of Islam based on that approach is very similar to the EDL and BNP which is hey hey, why he is very popular in both organisations.[/quote]
But I think the motives for bashing Islam are different. I've never heard Pat Condell utter a racist word......I've seen people within the EDL, on telly, shout racist abuse and do Nazi salutes
Pat Condell is a wanker. The EDL are racist wankers. I think the EDL are worse and you're being unfair using them to attack Pat Condell because, like me, you think he's a cock.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Samuel...
"Then you agree that it was unfair to use the EDL to smear Pat Condell.........which you did do. No denying it, really."
I deny it. I stated they are great supporters which they are. No denying it really.
"No but we can probably judge Stalin for Stalinism."
My statement is precisely that. You can judge Stalin by Stalinism. Please do not imply anything else. Having judged him we may give him a heavy or a light sentence but I think we can judge him.
"The EDL not only trash the religion but use it as an excuse to go up and down the country being a bunch of racist cunts. There's the difference."
No, wrong. All organisations have leaders and followers. They do different things. That isnt to say they dont have a similar approach to reaching similar views. Note: I am not suggesting Condell is the leader of the EDL.
"But I think the motives for bashing Islam are different. I've never heard Pat Condell utter a racist word......I've seen people within the EDL, on telly, shout racist abuse and do Nazi salutes"
See reply to previous point.
"Pat Condell is a wanker. The EDL are racist wankers."
Watch the youtube video which Max provided a link to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ
In it Condell argues Swedish rape=Islam=Immigrants without any info to back it up of course. If that is not racist I am not sure what is. Condell's main activity is incitement to hatred via misinformation on a grand scale.
THen watch the convincing trashing of COndell's video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDAuOr1m ... ure=fvwrel
"I think the EDL are worse and you're being unfair using them to attack Pat Condell because, like me, you think he's a cock."
Yet again I point out that they are great supporters of him which they are.
I deny it. I stated they are great supporters which they are. No denying it really.
"No but we can probably judge Stalin for Stalinism."
My statement is precisely that. You can judge Stalin by Stalinism. Please do not imply anything else. Having judged him we may give him a heavy or a light sentence but I think we can judge him.
"The EDL not only trash the religion but use it as an excuse to go up and down the country being a bunch of racist cunts. There's the difference."
No, wrong. All organisations have leaders and followers. They do different things. That isnt to say they dont have a similar approach to reaching similar views. Note: I am not suggesting Condell is the leader of the EDL.
"But I think the motives for bashing Islam are different. I've never heard Pat Condell utter a racist word......I've seen people within the EDL, on telly, shout racist abuse and do Nazi salutes"
See reply to previous point.
"Pat Condell is a wanker. The EDL are racist wankers."
Watch the youtube video which Max provided a link to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ
In it Condell argues Swedish rape=Islam=Immigrants without any info to back it up of course. If that is not racist I am not sure what is. Condell's main activity is incitement to hatred via misinformation on a grand scale.
THen watch the convincing trashing of COndell's video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDAuOr1m ... ure=fvwrel
"I think the EDL are worse and you're being unfair using them to attack Pat Condell because, like me, you think he's a cock."
Yet again I point out that they are great supporters of him which they are.
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Samuel...
[quote]"Then you agree that it was unfair to use the EDL to smear Pat Condell.........which you did do. No denying it, really."
I deny it. I stated they are great supporters which they are. No denying it really.[/quote]
You're being disingenuous, David. Of course you used the EDL to smear Pat Condell. You telling me it was just a random fact you pulled out of thin air for no apparent reason other than you thought we'd all find it interesting?
Stop pulling my plonker.
[quote]"No but we can probably judge Stalin for Stalinism."
My statement is precisely that. You can judge Stalin by Stalinism. Please do not imply anything else.[/quote]
Again, you're being disingenuous. I said it was unfair to judge Pat Condell based on what the EDL happen to agree with him over. This is not the same relationship Stalinism had with Stalin. You know this, I know this and most people with half a brain reading this will know this. I don't know why you felt the need to defend this point, though, given you already denied using the EDL to smear Condell.............hey?
[quote]See reply to previous point.
"Pat Condell is a wanker. The EDL are racist wankers."
Watch the youtube video which Max provided a link to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ
In it Condell argues Swedish rape=Islam=Immigrants without any info to back it up of course. If that is not racist I am not sure what is. Condell's main activity is incitement to hatred via misinformation on a grand scale.[/quote]
That's an improvement. You have tried to smear Pat Condell using the EDL and have finally showed me something that could merit that smearing. It's a pity you didn't use these videos in the first place - it would have saved all this back and forth stuff.
I deny it. I stated they are great supporters which they are. No denying it really.[/quote]
You're being disingenuous, David. Of course you used the EDL to smear Pat Condell. You telling me it was just a random fact you pulled out of thin air for no apparent reason other than you thought we'd all find it interesting?
Stop pulling my plonker.
[quote]"No but we can probably judge Stalin for Stalinism."
My statement is precisely that. You can judge Stalin by Stalinism. Please do not imply anything else.[/quote]
Again, you're being disingenuous. I said it was unfair to judge Pat Condell based on what the EDL happen to agree with him over. This is not the same relationship Stalinism had with Stalin. You know this, I know this and most people with half a brain reading this will know this. I don't know why you felt the need to defend this point, though, given you already denied using the EDL to smear Condell.............hey?
[quote]See reply to previous point.
"Pat Condell is a wanker. The EDL are racist wankers."
Watch the youtube video which Max provided a link to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ
In it Condell argues Swedish rape=Islam=Immigrants without any info to back it up of course. If that is not racist I am not sure what is. Condell's main activity is incitement to hatred via misinformation on a grand scale.[/quote]
That's an improvement. You have tried to smear Pat Condell using the EDL and have finally showed me something that could merit that smearing. It's a pity you didn't use these videos in the first place - it would have saved all this back and forth stuff.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Samuel...
Well you have convinced yourself which is always a step in the right direction....but not me.
"That's an improvement. You have tried to smear Pat Condell using the EDL and have finally showed me something that could merit that smearing. It's a pity you didn't use these videos in the first place - it would have saved all this back and forth stuff."
That takes the biscuit, Mr. Slater. Well I can't make you read the whole thread before giving us the benefit of your knowledge, can I?
Max posted the Sweden video produced by Condell on the 29th September. I posted the trashing of it in a youtube vid on the 30th. You rattled on about Stalin etc. in a couple of posts on the 5th of October and how you had never heard Condell utter a racist word. You didnt even mention the vids posted two and half weeks ago until today, October 18th.
"it would have saved all this back and forth stuff."
Jeez! Keep up!
"That's an improvement. You have tried to smear Pat Condell using the EDL and have finally showed me something that could merit that smearing. It's a pity you didn't use these videos in the first place - it would have saved all this back and forth stuff."
That takes the biscuit, Mr. Slater. Well I can't make you read the whole thread before giving us the benefit of your knowledge, can I?
Max posted the Sweden video produced by Condell on the 29th September. I posted the trashing of it in a youtube vid on the 30th. You rattled on about Stalin etc. in a couple of posts on the 5th of October and how you had never heard Condell utter a racist word. You didnt even mention the vids posted two and half weeks ago until today, October 18th.
"it would have saved all this back and forth stuff."
Jeez! Keep up!
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Samuel...
Bollocks! You first posted the EDL/Condell post on the 28th, with me saying your smear wasn't really fair on the very same day. All this 2 days before Max posted something you're now using to justify your smear........a smear you're saying isn't a smear, which poses the question: why waste your breath on the justification?
Bloody hell, David. All that arguing with the motley crew over at the rock has left you rusty. It's me you're debating now - ME.
As for the last week......changed ISP Cruising on fibre now. No internetz 4 a week, innit? Couldn't be arsed via the phone.
Bloody hell, David. All that arguing with the motley crew over at the rock has left you rusty. It's me you're debating now - ME.
As for the last week......changed ISP Cruising on fibre now. No internetz 4 a week, innit? Couldn't be arsed via the phone.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Samuel...
"You first posted the EDL/Condell post on the 28th, with me saying your smear wasn't really fair on the very same day"
Yeah as I recall I was too busy taking the piss out of your laughable connection of Hitler with Chaplin. Hitler's favourite movie was Chaplin's "Great Dictator". !wink!
ON the following morning first thing I did point out that my starting point was Condell's videos and I have actually watched them.
http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i=261577&t=261551
If you want to ignore my posts and assume that I am telling lies in what I say then that's fine by me, but don't try to defend yourself when you choose to ignore my posts. It's very weak.
"Bloody hell, David. All that arguing with the motley crew over at the rock has left you rusty. It's me you're debating now - ME"
Like I said "Keep up" with the thread! Read all of the posts that you have missed, otherwise you come across as a bit silly when you hold forth.
And slightly less self-aggrandisement would be appropriate. You have clearly impressed yourself...
Not me.
Goodnite.
Yeah as I recall I was too busy taking the piss out of your laughable connection of Hitler with Chaplin. Hitler's favourite movie was Chaplin's "Great Dictator". !wink!
ON the following morning first thing I did point out that my starting point was Condell's videos and I have actually watched them.
http://bgafd.co.uk/forum/read.php?f=3&i=261577&t=261551
If you want to ignore my posts and assume that I am telling lies in what I say then that's fine by me, but don't try to defend yourself when you choose to ignore my posts. It's very weak.
"Bloody hell, David. All that arguing with the motley crew over at the rock has left you rusty. It's me you're debating now - ME"
Like I said "Keep up" with the thread! Read all of the posts that you have missed, otherwise you come across as a bit silly when you hold forth.
And slightly less self-aggrandisement would be appropriate. You have clearly impressed yourself...
Not me.
Goodnite.
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Samuel...
Again, wrong. You said the starting point was his videos in relation to thinking, like me, that he's an arsehole (or 'idiot' to be exact), NOT to justify the EDL smear.
Relevant lines from your post: "No. The starting point is Condell's videos. Max has provided links to Condell's videos on other occasions. I have looked at those videos. I think he is an idiot based on the videos."
The videos have nothing to do with the EDL. I suppose there are many facts you could have dragged up about Pat Condell if conveying random facts about the man was the purpose of your first post. If you want to persuade me that bringing up the EDL was in no way intended to smear the man then you're going to have to catch me when I'm drunk or something. The only other realistic reason for bringing up the EDL is if you're an EDL supporter yourself and think the association would a be a positive thing for someone you deeply admire......and I don't think that about you, you should be glad to hear.
Relevant lines from your post: "No. The starting point is Condell's videos. Max has provided links to Condell's videos on other occasions. I have looked at those videos. I think he is an idiot based on the videos."
The videos have nothing to do with the EDL. I suppose there are many facts you could have dragged up about Pat Condell if conveying random facts about the man was the purpose of your first post. If you want to persuade me that bringing up the EDL was in no way intended to smear the man then you're going to have to catch me when I'm drunk or something. The only other realistic reason for bringing up the EDL is if you're an EDL supporter yourself and think the association would a be a positive thing for someone you deeply admire......and I don't think that about you, you should be glad to hear.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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Deuce Bigolo
- Posts: 9910
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Condell shot down in flames
Too true
This guy shot Condells arguments down stone dead
He had some interesting historic things to say about Saudi Arabia
before Islam...Does Islam Oppress Women?
Very balanced & smart video imho
1.40min,8.45min onwards,9.30min bad islam men
On the counter side you have states like Iran with their Police that will drag women away or beat them for showing skin
Their you blame the religion BIG TIME as its pretty much a fascist state
in that context
This guy shot Condells arguments down stone dead
He had some interesting historic things to say about Saudi Arabia
before Islam...Does Islam Oppress Women?
Very balanced & smart video imho
1.40min,8.45min onwards,9.30min bad islam men
On the counter side you have states like Iran with their Police that will drag women away or beat them for showing skin
Their you blame the religion BIG TIME as its pretty much a fascist state
in that context