Interesting Pat Condell video...

[bamboo]

Sam, the Jews in the early 20th century were no more a race then, than they are now. Not in the true sense of the word anyway.



Just as with Muslims, Christians, Buddhists etc,etc. Judaism is, as you say, a philosophy, not a racial profile.

What's to stop a born and bred scandinavian chap, deciding to become Jewish. Or a farmer from Idaho, suddenly embracing Islam.
Nowt, that's what. It doesn't mean they suddenly change race.

[Arginald Valleywater]

And DJ who started that war in Iraq? Could it be that multi millionaire private schoolboy Yank loving Senator Toeneeee?? Maybe if we hadn't bombed the shit out of Iraq then Muslims would be trying to gain revenge?

[David Johnson]

Wot, the Iraq war started when Blair was Prime Minister?

I never noticed. Thanks for that.

[David Johnson]

"You gave the impression you think he's an arsehole based on how the EDL think about him."

No. The starting point is Condell's videos. Max has provided links to Condell's videos on other occasions. I have looked at those videos. I think he is an idiot based on the videos.

"I've seen clips of him having a go at Christianity (paedo priests etc) and Islam. If the EDL choose to pick up on one subject, which is more closely aligned to their agenda, then I don't think it's as fair to judge Pat Condell on that."

Of course it is fair to judge people by whom their supporters are.

One sided, simplistic thoughts in which a religion and all its adherents are tarnished by the actions of a relative minority are often taken up by groups like the EDL and the BNP who have one sided, simplistic thoughts in which a religion and all its adherents are tarnished by the actions of a relative minority. Hardly surprising, really.

"The EDL would probably back anyone that has a fear/hatred/dislike of Islam. "

The EDL would back anyone that has a simplistic, one size fits all view of a religion which equates with their own viewpoint.

"Are you saying no one should criticise Islam for fear of being associated with a suspiciously racist group or organisation?"

Obviously not.

"I don't see your point. "

If you had read all my posts in this thread, you would see that my point is incredibly easy to understand.

Condell extrapolates from the actions of a relatively small group of religious believers to label an entire religion and all its adherents with the same crticisms. It is a one size fits all type of argument. It is no surprise that Condell seems to only use video as his communication technique. If he used the printed word, his ideas would seem even more idiotic, once perused at leisure, than they do in the videos.

You agree with me, because it is exactly the same argument that you used with Max when you pointed out that the first influx of Muslims into the UK had relatively moderate views and were keen to assimilate whereas later Muslim immigrants had a greater tendency to come from poor areas and were more likely to be fundamentalist in their interpretation of Islam.

"

[max_tranmere]

Lots of interesting comments there. I personally think Pat Condell is a courageous guy, most people wouldn't dare criticise Islam at all - he does it all the time. I'm surprised there isn't a price on his head, he has had huge numbers of death threats, if you look at the comments on his website they are as threatening as could be.

On this issue of whether a small minority of the people who follow a religion should be viewed as how all followers of that religion are, there are some points to consider. A minority of fans of a certain football club or country, who behave badly, always end up being seem as typical of how the fans of that club are overall. The club would still be banned from playing somewhere because a minority of its fans are thugs, for example. The reports would refer to the club's fans as thugs, not just a minority of them being so. I do wonder though just how big a proportion of the followers of Islam in this world would absolutely condemn those who commit violent acts in the name of Islam though. What proportion wouldn't add an "if, but or maybe" at the end of their supposed condemnation of those within Islam attacking embassies and threatening to lynch people who insult the prophet?

Pat Condell once said: "saying you can't judge a religion by its followers is like saying you can't just a football team by its results. A religion IS its followers". I just happen to make a reference to football there, it does not relate in any way literally or metaphorically to anything I've said in the previous paragraph. He has also done another video where he analyses what Sweden has done to itself by absorbing vast waves of muslim immigration. Link:

[David Johnson]

"He has also done another video where he analyses what Sweden has done to itself by absorbing vast waves of muslim immigration."

The Muslim population in Sweden is about 5% as far as I am aware. "Vast waves of Muslim immigration", Max? I don't think so.

Could I suggest you get out more and perhaps make some Muslim friends?

You may find that they are not the cartoon characters that you seem to imagine. Maybe they aren't all chomping at the bit to rape your 10 year old white niece and put you in front of a Sharia law court for drinking an alcopop.

Your Islamaphobia appears to be getting out of control in which you swallow any half-arsed statements from Internet weirdos to feed this phobia.

It will end in tears you know!

[David Johnson]

Here's a comeback to the idiotic Condell's video on Sweden to which you provide a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDAuOr1m ... ure=fvwrel

It's not put together by a Muslim but a gay English guy. Clearly he ain't going to be a supporter of Islamic fundamentalism.

Just to point out in advance, the guy's response contains statistics and logic. It does not contain a fact free, endless rant ala Condell who seems to confuse his opinonated with being automatically correct.

I suggest you watch it a few times. It may help you to see the difference between gobshite and a more balanced view on things.

[Arginald Valleywater]

He'd be bloody worried if he lived in a caring Muslim country like Saudi Arabia.

[David Johnson]

You are absolutely correct, Argie. That is my point

The guy has a balanced view of Islam and references the very bad things about countries run by Arab fundamentalists. But an understanding of the bad things about countries like Saudia Arabia, does not stop him from seeing the shite in Condell's endless, fact-free, totally one-sided rants.

[Sam Slater]

Sorry, been a little busy.

If you're only judging him on his videos, why mention the EDL? Your first post didn't even mention Pat Condell - only the EDL.

If Pat Condell supports the EDL, I'm right with you. If he doesn't, he doesn't. Has Pat Condell asked for Muslims to be killed, tortured, abused or discriminated against in any way? I've not seen all his videos so maybe he has, in which, again, I'm right with you.

And I reiterate my view that it's not always fair to judge people based on the characters of others, whom just happen to agree with them on certain things. Movements have historically taken on the ideas of one person and twisted them for their own ends. Can we judge Lenin or Marx for what Stalinism became? Isn't it possible that two people can hold the same view but for different reasons, or have different motives? I think so.

As for Condell: bellend, cock, wanker, cunt-feature, nob, tosser, prick.......ad infinitum euphemisms for genitalia and forms of self-abuse.

A racist that's using a backward, stoneage religion as an excuse to have a go at some brown-skinned people like the EDL so obviously are and are doing? The jury's still out and I'll have to wait for more evidence.