It is 'morally wrong' to pay tradesmen cash

[max_tranmere]

Not sure the answer to my question is in my post. Is Philip Green a Tory doner? I think I heard that he was. I know he's a tax avoider.

"As to your beginner's guide to tax evasion for the tradesman, ever thought there might be a role of chairman at HSBC available for someone like yourself?"

If it sounded like I was condoning tradesmen doing it, I wasn't. Just considering how it could be done. Not sure what you mean about 'someone like me' taking on the role of HSBC chairman.

[David Johnson]

"Not sure the answer to my question is in my post. Is Philip Green a Tory doner? I think I heard that he was. I know he's a tax avoider".

I've just checked and he isn't a Tory party donor as far as I can see but despite being a tax avoider he was appointed by Cameron to produce a report on public sector procurement including how to make it more efficient and cost effective!

"Just considering how it could be done. Not sure what you mean about 'someone like me' taking on the role of HSBC chairman."

Given you were highlighting how it would be possible to fiddle tax, I mentioned the HSBC chairman because allegedly, some of the HSBC subsidiaries were producing guidelines to some extremely dodgy clients on how to launder money in a tax "efficient" way.

[Robches]

David:
Sir Phillip Green is not a tax avoider, he lives in Britain and pays his taxes here. On the other hand, Lady Green, who gets all the dividends, lives in Monaco because she is a big Grand Prix fan.

[David Johnson]

"Sir Phillip Green is not a tax avoider"

Totally wrong.

"he lives in Britain and pays his taxes here."

Totally correct.

"On the other hand, Lady Green, who gets all the dividends, lives in Monaco because she is a big Grand Prix fan."

Hang on a mo while I piss myself laughing. So its nothing to do with the Monaco tax regime then?

Okay let me lead you back to reality, Robches.

Philip Green is not a non-dom. He lives in the UK. He works in the UK. He pays tax on his salary in the UK. All seems to be in order. Until you realise that Philip Green does not actually own any of the Arcadia group that he spends every day running. Instead, it is in the name of his wife who has not done a single day?s work for the company. Mrs Green lives in Monaco, where she pays not a penny of income tax. In 2005 Philip Green awarded himself ?1.2bn, the biggest paycheck in British corporate history. But this dividend payout was channeled through a network of offshore accounts, via tax havens in Jersey and eventually to Green?s wife?s Monaco bank account. The dodge saved Green, and cost the tax payer, close to ?300m. This tax arrangement remains in place. Any time it takes his fancy, Green can pay himself huge sums of money without having to pay any tax.

This Robches is known as tax avoidance, allowed by the Labour government and with ongoing support from the coalition.

[Porn Baron]

Wealthy tax evaders, aided by private banks have exploited loopholes in tax legislation and stashed over $21 tn in offshore funds, says a report by The Tax Justice Network campaign group.

[Flat_Eric]

All these so-called "loopholes" have been specifically created over the years by politicians for the benefit of their rich cronies - the Philip Greens and Richard Bransons of this world - with whom they are in deep cahoots.

Never was the phrase "as thick as thieves" more apt.

Nor indeed "we're all in this together!"

They are not "loopholes" or deliberate oversights or flaws in the tax system or anything of that nature.

They are in place on purpose, to enable the rich 1% to continue getting richer at the expense of Joe Average.

This is why no matter who's in power and despite all the hot air, there is never any political will to change the status quo and create a more just and fair tax system. Nor will there ever be until we get a breed of politicians who actually give a toss about ordinary people. And I'm not holding my breath in anticipation of that happening.

- Eric

[David Johnson]

"All these so-called "loopholes" have been specifically created over the years by politicians for the benefit of their rich cronies - the Philip Greens and Richard Bransons of this world - with whom they are in deep cahoots".


This is wrong. HMRC provide guidelines as to what is acceptable in tax terms e.g. self-employed plumber offsetting the cost of his tools against income.

There is a multi billion tax avoidance industry that has grown up in banks, tax consultancies, "tax advisers" etc. to come up with ever more convoluted ways of paying next to no tax but still stay the right side of the law. The likes of Green pay millions for this kind of advice. These loopholes are not "created " by politicians, but are found by these tax consultancies putting in huge, expensive resources to come up with ever more complex loopholes.

The failure of government is in not putting in enough resources to close down these loopholes quickly enough and converting them from tax avoidance scams to tax evasion scams.

[Flat_Eric]

It's both David. A toxic cocktail, if you like.

The politicians make the tax laws, HMRC implement them, "tax efficiency" consultants and their fat-cat clients exploit them, and when these "loopholes" are revealed to the public at large, the politicians just say "ah well" and fail to close them.

- Eric

[max_tranmere]

I recall the Rolling Stones cancelling their British tour at the end of the 1990's because Tony Blair suddenly closed a tax-dodge loophole called the 'overseas earnings deduction'.

It meant that the most tax-avoiding band of all-time, the Rolling Stones, would have lost a vast amount of the profit they were due to get from their entire world tour if they played a dozen shows in the UK.

Mick Jagger, who has paid no tax in Britain since the 1960's, said shortly after "if we'd done the short British tour we would have lost the profit from about 70 or 80 shows from the entire world tour".

I mention all this to point out that some politicians have done things to stop the rich from benefiting from tax loopholes. They are not all in the pockets of the super-rich.

I never understood why Jagger was knighted though.

[Porn Baron]

Maybe he donated some cash to a political party? !shocked!