I'm tired of a couple thing in porn, Am I alone?

[Dave Wells]

There are very few and it's getting less and less every week to, who make a living from porn in the UK anymore. And yes I am not one of them !

[andy ide]

Oh, Dave, don't get me going on John Leslie. I'm pretty much a fundamentalist in terms of what I learnt from him. The biggest regret I have is not getting in touch with him to thank him. And to be quite honest, the reason I've got so much contempt for so much of the porn out there is because so few directors took a leaf out his book, let alone noticed what he was doing.

I can't remember you talking about that Angie George scene but very nice to hear you say it. It was a hot scene. And everything was set up to work against it -- all the make-up and wardrobe and the fact that we shot it in the dead of winter with no heating and I was shooting two scenes in one day. But the reason it worked, aside from the good fortune of the people finding out they fancied each other, was entirely down to what I learnt from John Leslie. Let people be themselves, even if they're playing a character. Certainly don't give them lines to speak. Don't use lights. Block the sex as little as possible. Shoot on the fly. In other words, get rid of (or minimise) everything that might make those people think they're at work. Turn it into playtime.

I. Just. Don't. Get. Why so many pornographers impose obstacles that get in the way of the girls being themselves and having fun. You can shoot the most beautiful porn actress in the world, in the most amazing get-up, in the most expensive location, even with her playing a character and talking, and still get all your shots and make it real and electric, and have the girl's eyes alive and in the moment, lighting up her face and the rest of her body.

Fuck, I'm ranting. I just think there's too much emphasis on the technical side of things in a lot of porn and a paucity of people skills being used in what is, after all and pretty fundamentally, a people business.

As for not getting the people with the purse strings to see things your way, well, granted -- an awful lot of everything is to do with who's in with who and less to do with what you can deliver.

[andy ide]

And all this talk of the death of porn. I have to say there's a side to it all that brings a smile to my face and that I don't begrudge at all. The girl becoming her own boss and getting all the money coming straight to her. Those are the people you need to be talking to, Dave -- the girls!

[jimslip]

Remember Jim Slip is made like it is for a reason. I am no "amateur", I cut my teeth as a lighting designer in theatre and in commercials years ago. have made around 40 series for TVX and a number for Playboy and also filmed, directed and edited most of the UK series, UK Studenthouse which I believe has outsold anything before or since in the UK.

The idea is to "Look" realistic and to do this well, you need to be able to do it properly, otherwise, well it's just shit. Many think, "Just get an old git, shove him in a vest and get him shaggng a tasty bird and it's !cigar! WRONG! lol

Porn consumers have always been hoodwinked by an Uber Stud, a glamour girl caked with makeup, a couple of blue gels, a gobo of venetian blinds and a swimming pool, into thinking, "Wow! That's great production values!"

I can make stuff like that like falling off a log, it's a piece of piss! Making a good jimslip scene is a nightmare in comparison, because the whole thing rests on the personality of the girl, the smile, the behaviour, etc etc and you simply can't direct this, it either works or it doesn't.

Te reason jimslip is successful is because of the spark between me, the girl, Lara and the makeup artist. All of us love a laugh and don't take things too seriously and that is why I think the whole thing works. Put some miserable, sour faced tog or assistant into the equation and the whole thing would go up its arse.

As far as so called, "High production values" is concerned, I seem to recall some years ago, a "big cheese" standing on a stage screaming to a crowd of porno folk, "We are going to be the biggest porn company ever in the UK!" and suggesting that all of us were finished and we may as well pack it all in and go sweep the streets..............!tumbleweed!!tumbleweed!!tumbleweed!

Moral of the story, never mock artistic expression and NEVER think you know for sure what the consumer wants. Just because something is disordered or different doesn't make it bad. If "art" was all like so called, "High production" porn this is the only style of painting they'd allow in the Tate:

[img]http://www.gordon-stewart.co.uk/cats/pa ... ittens.jpg[/img]

or

[img]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5 ... SX265_.jpg[/img]

[andy ide]

One thing I don't get about you, Dave. Why don't you shoot in natural light? I swear, the best lit porno scene I've ever seen -- you lit that. Can't remember who was in it, what it was, or how I found out you did it. It was fucking incredible and I've always used it since as a personal reference point for other artificially-lit productions -- if you can't shoot your posho scene as well as he lit that then what the fuck are you bothering for?

So why, as a highly skilled and creative technician, do you blanket your shoots with the same kind of anonymous lighting that everybody else does? As opposed to working with the kind of character and nuances that natural light gives you?

Politely asked. Genuinely interested.

[jimslip]

As you have strong views on the making of porn and you obviously have considerable experience of the work of Killergram, myself, Bendover etc, I was curious as to how you get to view the material when making your judgements? Presumably you have been or are a member of these sites or do you view the material from other sources?

[Dave Wells]

First point.

"One thing I don't get about you, Dave. Why don't you shoot in natural light? I swear, the best lit porno scene I've ever seen -- you lit that. Can't remember who was in it, what it was, or how I found out you did it. It was fucking incredible and I've always used it since as a personal reference point for other artificially-lit productions -- if you can't shoot your posho scene as well as he lit that then what the fuck are you bothering for?"

Thanks mate, I wish you could remember which scene it was. But yes I cut my teeth back in the mid 80's as production manager/second (stills) camera on most of Roy Stuarts epic shoots (stills remember) for Excelsior, Color Climax and loads of other mags that used to pay up to ?6,000 a pop, yes for stills set's !

Second point.

"So why, as a highly skilled and creative technician, do you blanket your shoots with the same kind of anonymous lighting that everybody else does? As opposed to working with the kind of character and nuances that natural light gives you?"

Probably not my choice, just doing as asked or told. I have usually been employed by whoever to light and shoot it their way or in the way that they think they were/are guarantee to get a sale. I would by choice always shoot with natural light or cleverly give that impression with good lighting so you cannot tell the difference.

[andy ide]

Oh, shit! Tits up! Last post was directed at Dave Lever, not you, Dave W. Apologies for the confusion.

I take it from the reference to Ben Dover that you're talking to me, Dave L. Not sure if you likewise thought the post was directed at Dave W, but to answer specifically:

- Killergram: seen some trailers.
- Your stuff: seen your trailers on the freeview and on their site.
- Ben Dover: well, I was working in a pub in Tottenham 15 years ago, back in the days before R18, and...

If you're suggesting that I've watched pirated porno, then of course I have. Everyone has.

[andy ide]

Can't I just rewind 75mins and put 'Dave (Lever)' in that other post? Fuck. Heightened public social embarrassment. Sorry, Dave. Er... Oh, I give up.

[Yawgmoth]

That's precisely why the porn you do as well as Ben Dover are my favorite British Porn.