I'm tired of a couple thing in porn, Am I alone?

[Yawgmoth]

So without naming anyone can you describe what you consider as proper crap ?

[Dave Wells]

Probably not no without naming. Brit porn is at best woeful because when there is any kind of 'acting' involved they simply cannot do it except maybe a handful (good pun Dave) of them. Of all the other type of Brit porn, well it just looks kinda fake or amateur really I suppose.

I was first turned onto porn in the late 70's early 80's when I saw amazingly gorgeous girls like Seka, Erica Boyer and Christy Canyon in movies acting and getting fucked too. These along with guys like Jamie Gillis and John Leslie and indeed even Ron Jeremy were proper actors who tried to get into Hollywood and failed so ended up doing porn.

That simply couldn't happen here and indeed didn't although here because of the repressive laws that were around at the time.

If you are asking me the porn I like, well it's probably the porn from that period. I liked some of the Buttman stuff, John Leslies Fresh Meat and Voyer sereis were mostly excellent and some of the bigger budget German, Italian and French productions where they took their time and got it right.

But to me it's always been about the girl. A stunningly gorgeous girl in an awful scene or movie can sometimes make it kind of acceptable. Guys are and should always just be a cock to fuck for these girls. Show the girl off as best you can, end of !

It's the future that worries me most. Now porn is going virtually underground because there is no investment because profits are diminishing all the time thus no budgets exist. And before anyone says ah you are just stuck in the past. I probably am because I don't really see much of a future !

[jimslip]

Daves post shows that everyone has different needs and desires for their porn. Dave yearns for the old days of goaty beards, flares and a time when all the girls wore neck scarves. Psychologists say that most of our, "loves" are based on stored memories from how an episode in our lives made us feel.

So you might really like a certain type of girl because when you were a child, one patted you on the head! In the case of porn, for many people in the 1970's getting a porn film was a very exciting occasion. It wasn't like now, we used to treasure our porn. We would salivate over some pirated VHS tape. Color Climax, Rodox, Swedish Erotica all wonderful memories and I wonder if those that long for the return to these times and just trying to re-live how those films made them feel at the time?

I think companies like Private squeezed the life blood out of porn. Before Private porn had life and intimacy. Girls were a tad imperfect, guys rough at the edges. Private churned porn out like insipid, cold, Iceland sausages. Turned porn into IKEA, cold, angry and totally lacking in atmosphere and humour.

I remember you could set your watch by a Private film, blow job, 4 positions and a cum shot. I could fast forward through 50 of these films and NOT FIND one single bit of erotica in any of them. Sure they were full of sex, but not erotica. Just cold, dank representations of how maybe a bunch of humourless, miserable, circus contortionists might have sex, if they were all on holiday in Mauritius. Alot of weird positions that no one in the real world would ever do, alot of fake cumming and not a single second of intimacy.

But thats just my opinion.

[andy ide]

Irrespective of whether or not you think I have any right to be financed as pornographer, Dave, I have to say I agree with you. There have been lots of legal and censorship obstacles in the way of the UK industry developing and growing but I wonder if it would ever really be that good were all the shackles to be taken off.

I don't honestly know why we're so poor at it. For the majority of the time I was making stuff for TVX, anybody with a bit of vision and talent could come in and get hired by them, so it's not like innovation wasn't supported. For such an enormously creative country it's odd.

What's missing most of all is eroticism. That comes in all shapes and sizes -- the best of Ben Dover's stuff was erotic -- but it's fuelled by a sexual attitude on the part of the guy or girl in charge of the shoot, a commitment to some kind of sexual celebration, off the back of which the punter can get off.

I think the majority of directors in UK porn don't have anything to say. Apart from "Action!" of course. Spielberg says "Action!" so they've got to say it as well. Maybe someone should tell them that Clint never does.

[Dave Wells]

"Dave yearns for the old days of goaty beards, flares and a time when all the girls wore neck scarves. Psychologists say that most of our, "loves" are based on stored memories from how an episode in our lives made us feel."

Absolute BOLLOCKS Dave. You obviously didn't read my post. I liked the stunning looking women who looked like they could actually act as well as getting laid and baring their bodies, I couldn't care less about flares and neck scarves.

"I think companies like Private squeezed the life blood out of porn. Before Private porn had life and intimacy. Girls were a tad imperfect, guys rough at the edges. Private churned porn out like insipid, cold, Iceland sausages. Turned porn into IKEA, cold, angry and totally lacking in atmosphere and humour."

Couldn't agree more. Although some stunning looking women came out of Prague and Budapest on the whole most of them lacked personality and in the end in became a production line of bimbos really.

[Dave Wells]

P.s I do agree that that type of porn (even shot on film as many of those were) would indeed make a welcome return in my book and I would gladly shoot such stuff. BUT what would be the point ? It would cost a fortune and within hours of being released it would be on all the tube sites etc and make nothing ! Net result zero profit so why bother ?

[jimslip]

Dave said:

"Couldn't agree more. Although some stunning looking women came out of Prague and Budapest on the whole most of them lacked personality and in the end in became a production line of bimbos really."

This is the great fallacy of porn, ie beautiful "Eastern European girls haven't got any personality." this tripe has been lectured to me many times, even TVX used to say this, until I changed their minds. Having worked with over 200 of them I can say they have as much personality as any girl from anywhere in the World. The problem was Private and many other companies these days, do NOT REQUIRE a "personality" from the girls. The girls are no more than an object for some gorilla to angrily fuck and that's why they appear cold and distant.

These girls are sensuous and rampant and what's more they don't have "Issues", they like money AND they like cock! Too many people are impresed by girls that shout and scream in a scene, like it's "sexy", I say it's bollocks. Give me the quite, sexy, reserve of a European girl any time!

But that's just my opinion.

[Dave Wells]

Glad you've chipped in Andy and thanks for your comments. I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying that you like me are a big admirer of John Leslie's stuff and indeed I can recall that I once told you that you shot one of my favourite (British shot) scenes ever with Angie George at a piano with big whatisname ! Very erotic and even soft if I remember to - staggering for me to like a soft scene at all.

Although I would totally disagree that "anybody with a bit of vision and talent could come in and get hired by them, so it's not like innovation wasn't supported. For such an enormously creative country it's odd" I gave up trying !
And it's funny you know, not so long ago I shot an older stud and he said to me during during a break in filming "Dave, what are you doing here ?" "What do mean ?" I remarked. He explained " Well, here you are working for Rico shooting this stuff for TVX correct ?" I nodded. "You should be fucking running TVX, not still jsut doing this sort of thing ! I was humbled but he was probably right.

[Yawgmoth]

I'm not very familiar with British porn except for Mr Slip, Ben Dover (mid 90' - mid 00'), Harmony and Killergram (out of the top of my mind)

And while Jim Slip and Ben Dover porn might looks more amateurish (no offense Jim =) than Harmony or Killergram. I like them alot better.

So to me British production is not woeful at all. But yet again that's my opinion from outside the industry. Maybe if I made a living out of doing porn in Great Britain I would think otherwise.

[Yawgmoth]

Post-production can make your movie looks like it was shot on film and for a very cheap cost.
Concerning profit, the internet sure hurt the porn industry, however what people seem to forget is that the internet also brought many new ways to make money.