England Euro 2012 exit

[Flat_Eric]

"Broken metatarsals" - now who's making excuses!

He had a broken metatarsal once Sam, that was before the 2006 World Cup (during which he managed to get himself sent off against Portugal and we all know what happened next).

We didn't quality for the 2008 Euros, in 2010 he was just shit (like the rest of the team) and this time round he was suspended for the first 2 group games (thanks to his own stupidity in the last qualifying game v Montenegro), which meant that he wasn't as sharp as he could/should have been when he came back for the Sweden match.

In any case, if you'd read my posts properly, you'll see I haven't just blamed Rooney. It's the whole system in the UK and the Premier League. I do agree with your own analysis by the way - there's a whole lot wrong with the entire England set up and there has been for many years. But that also includes an over-reliance on so-called "talesmanic" players like Rooney (and Beckham before him for that matter).

That's not to say they're "bad" players - and sure, they might be good for the occasional goal against a team like Colombia or Greece or Ukraine in the qualifiying or group stages of a tournament. But every single time, as sure as night follows day, they fall short when it really matters against the big boys, none of whom England has ever beaten in a knockout game away from Wembley.

No doubt you'll be back later to explain to me how wrong I am, in which case we'll just have to agree to disagree. But like I said if you think that Rooney was playing anything like up to scratch in this tournement, Roy Hodgson is the one who need to take it up with.

- Eric

[jimslip]

Call me a cynic, but I think the media generate the misplaced hype about people like Rooney. They've lost Becks and now they have Coleen Rooney who has become an icon in the world of Chavs. To sell papers and mags, Coleen must have a husband who is a super-hero, hence all the hype. How quickly the media forget, "Auld Slapper" and all the other grans, Rooney used to "Care for!"

If the Italians hadn't won so convincingly, I am sure we'd be hearing the words, "Cheat", "bribe" to explain Englands woeful performance. The shame is we weren't thrashed 3:0 or worse, because it would then allow or force Hodgson to start thinking out of the box, but alas he is already congratulating his team on an adequate performance.

So it's more of the same I fear and stand by for a future Sun frontpage, with Rooney draped in a Union flag with the caption,"We will fight them on the beaches, we will fight on the landing grounds, we will fight........" blah! blah! blah! .......just before they lose yet again!

[Jonone]

Messi has underperformed, Ronaldo has underperformed (until now) so Rooney is not alone.

Players like Huntelaar who had a great club season didn't show-up, nor to an extent Van Persie. Young players of whom something was expected like Christian Eriksen were poor.

Some players don't shine at tournaments although i'd agree that it's a measure of their 'greatness' that they should ... at some point.

[Robches]

On the other hand, poor as England were, if the ref or the useless 5th official had given us a penalty for the blatant shirt pulling in the area, England might have won 1-0, because the fact is Italy did not score. Obviously, Germany would have beaten us in the semi-final, it's the law, so perhaps it's as well we bowed out when we did.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]He had a broken metatarsal once Sam, that was before the 2006 World Cup (during which he managed to get himself sent off against Portugal and we all know what happened next).[/quote]

Two metatarsal breaks, though I got them mixed up because before South Africa it was ankle ligaments in the Champions League semi-final with Bayern Munich [] The two metatarsal breaks were during '04 and then in '06. My point remains, though. Apart from this tournament he's been injured during the run-up to the other two we've qualified for.

[quote]In any case, if you'd read my posts properly, you'll see I haven't just blamed Rooney.[/quote]

I have read your posts. If you look back you was the one that pulled me up on saying 'people blaming Rooney are ridiculous'. Taking issue with that one statement from me, from my long post, gave me the impression you disagreed.

[quote]It's the whole system in the UK and the Premier League. I do agree with your own analysis by the way - there's a whole lot wrong with the entire England set up and there has been for many years. But that also includes an over-reliance on so-called "talesmanic" players like Rooney (and Beckham before him for that matter).[/quote]

Agreed. People in this country seem to pick a certain player that had a few good seasons and expect too much of them. That is no fault of the players (Rooney, Beckham, Scholes, Barnes etc). If Rooney had played shit in a team that was playing well there'd be a case to slate him, but in a teams like England? Nah.

[quote]That's not to say they're "bad" players - and sure, they might be good for the occasional goal against a team like Colombia or Greece or Ukraine in the qualifiying or group stages of a tournament. But every single time, as sure as night follows day, they fall short when it really matters against the big boys, none of whom England has ever beaten in a knockout game away from Wembley.[/quote]

This, again, is where we disagree slightly. You said further up the thread: "As I said in Jim's Pele thread, it's one thing running rings round the defences of make-up-the-numbers Premiership sides, but another thing altogether delivering the goods in quarter finals of major tournaments."

Rooney has scored goals in major tournaments. He has a Champions League Final goal against Barcelona. A Champions League semi-final goal against Bayern, in Munich. A champions league hatrick vs AC Milan in the Champions League semi-finals and a brace against the same team in the Champions League quarter finals. I'd argue that the level of football in the Champions League knockout phase is of a higher quality than any international tournament could be. In club football you play and train with eachother day in, day out. Defences and tactics are worked on constantly rather than over a week or two before a major tournament.

[quote]No doubt you'll be back later to explain to me how wrong I am, in which case we'll just have to agree to disagree.[/quote]

It seems we don't disagree that much.

[Sam Slater]

Here's some stats from the Daily Mail or Rooney's England performances at tournaments:

[img]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/06/ ... 34x477.jpg[/img]



As you can see, as he's aged his shooting accuracy, conversion rate and assist rate has decreased. His passing accuracy, and number of passes per game, have increased. Does this back up my theory that as England's midfield got older and less able to hold the ball, Rooney has had to come deeper and deeper to get it? It would explain how his passing has increased and shooting decreased if he's working in deeper areas of the pitch.

[Flat_Eric]

Careful Sam - you ought to know that quoting from the Daily Mail is frowned upon round these 'ere parts! !wink!

- Eric

[Sam Slater]

Think I'm safe with the Football stuff, Eric!