Reading, 'riting and 'rithmetic - for David J

[Essex Lad]

David Johnson wrote:

> > 6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
> > 7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at
> 14, 16, and 18. ----Utter nonsense. If this is true why has the
> CBI and bosses of Tesco and M&S complained that many school
> leavers are unemployable? Why have many university chancellors
> say that they have to give remedial literacy and numeracy
> lessons to new students? And presumably some members of this
> board were educated during the Blair era - the illiteracy here
> is often truly shocking.
>
> I cant remember a time when universities havent complained
> about students. In 1997 more than half of all schools saw less
> than 30% of their pupils get five good GCSEs including English
> and Maths. 10 years later only 270 schools fail to reach this
> benchmark
>
I did some research on this and the problem with the five good GCSEs is that subjects such as cake decorating and clarinet playing have the same status as maths and English. A distinction in a grade five music exam is given virtually the same status in the league tables as a grade B in a traditional subject such as history. League tables rank schools on their pupils' best results in any five subjects at grade C or above. This meant, for example, that Selly Park Technical College for Girls in Birmingham could boast that it "added most value" for pupils aged 11-16 with 84 per cent of pupils achieving five A* grades. If the school included maths and English the figure drops to 43%. Nationally, if maths and English were removed, the proportion of pupils passing five good GCSEs would be 44.3%. Take out the independent schools (which focus on core subjects) and the figure drops to 42%. For boys in state schools only 37.8% sitting maths and English achieved a grade C or better.

So, there has been a slight improvement but nothing like the "record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools" that you claim and this even with the exams made easier.

In addition, with Michael Gove's new plans - The Institute of Directors, the Confederation of British Industry, the British Chambers of Commerce and the Federation of Small Businesses have now all welcomed Mr Gove?s call for a rethink of secondary education. So much for record levels of literacy and numeracy.

[Essex Lad]

British pupils have slipped down international league tables in key subjects over the past decade.

The most authoritative comparison is the Programme for International Student Assessment carried out by the OECD. It is based on tests given to 15-year-olds in up to 65 countries.

When first carried out in 2000, the UK was ranked fourth in science, seventh in literacy and eighth in maths. The science ranking fell to 12th in 2003, 14th in 2006 and 16th in 2009. In literacy the country sank to 11th in 2003, 17th in 2006 and 25th in 2009.

The most dramatic slump is in maths, where the ranking was 18th in 2003, 24th in 2006 and 28th in 2009.

[Sam Slater]

Do you think this may be more to do with emerging nations catching up to our level more than us getting dumber?

[Lizard]

No, definitely dumber, kids who now say "free instead of three and fink instead of think, they are being tought by morons though in many cases.
Pensions before pupils.

[Sam Slater]

I see no real direct link between pronunciation and intelligence.

And let's be fair, you're the guy that's mixed up his commas and apostrophes this past 7 or 8 years!

I just think as times change so does the educational system. I'm sure when schools first started they taught young boys how to skin a rabbit. At one point you'd be considered 'dumb' if you didn't know how to skin a rabbit.

My mum never went into further education but despite her years is quicker at her times tables than I am. She had them drilled into her so they're second nature. While impressive it's more akin to teaching a dog a trick than real education. She didn't spend as much time as I did on long algebraic expressions and trigonometry for example.

My niece is doing her GCSEs now. In preparing for them I've helped her and noticed things she doesn't know that I learnt at school. But then again she's been revising for stuff I didn't get taught too. I learnt much more about the 2nd World War than she has but she's learnt stuff about the Crimean War which we just touched on, probably in a few classes over 4 years. I know she's been writing an essay on 'Of Mice and Men' as I helped her with a few bits. I'd never read the book but had watched the film 'The Grapes of Wrath' and having read Huck Finn was more familiar with the vernacular. I'd say because of the vernacular 'Of Mice and Men' is harder for a 15 year old to grasp and write and essay about than 'The Woman in Black'. She's not stupid because she didn't go through the exact same curriculum as you or I, she's just been taught different things.

And as for moronic teachers: we all know who you're sniping at there. An ex of mine was a teacher and she has many more issues with the parents these days than the kids.

[Lizard]

"And as for moronic teachers: we all know who you're sniping at there. An ex of mine was a teacher and she has many more issues with the parents these days than the kids."

Nope, not sniping at anyone, I have always been honest about my education, I had very little because I was playing - touring from a very early age, and I have done ok, so it doesn't bother me, unlike today's kids who either don't grasp what they are being taught, or they are not being taught properly. I have had two teachers working for me, both of them were morons, unable to make decisions and useless at practical jobs.
I could not agree more with your ex, she sounds like a canny lass.

[frankthring]

This argument seems to me one of the siliest in a long time.....surely, any
adult with reasonable literacy can see that kids today are less articulate,
less bright than kids of 20 or 40 years ago. In any general knowledge pub-
quiz I would put my money on a team of old age pensioners as compared to
a team of 15 year olds !

[Sam Slater]

An 11 year old reading over my shoulder just pointed out I should tell you it's 'silliest', Frank. The cheeky bugger!

[RoddersUK]

I unashamedly admit to having a Grammar School education.
For the 1st year I and others of my year attended a 2ndy modern school in Brighton whislt the new Grammar School was being built. Even though I grew up with many of these lads I could see then that there would be a dummbing down if allowed. When the new school opened I received a better standard of teaching and I must hold my hand up that I didn't excel as others did, but, I had a good standard behind me and I have used it ever since.
The politicians who are responsible for the present state of education in this country should be rounded up and shot. They are to blame for this, not the children. Children sit the exam papers they are given and if the paper is rediculously easy so that no one fails then it is hardly their fault. It is ALL the fault of the Establishment that has allowed this to happen.

[David Johnson]

You may be right.

What is undeniable is that all governments massage statistics for their own ends.

"So, there has been a slight improvement"

Hey, I will take that!!!!!