A few points to consider....

[Jonone]

'Thou shalt not kill' is one of the bible's rules but the Church is still supportive of the armed services.

[Gusset Sniffer]

It's all about personal beliefs but I think christians believe nations have a right to wage war in self-defense??????

[David Johnson]

As the self styled ecclesiastical reporter on the BGAFD - BGAFD's man in the dog collar (50p in all high quality stalls on the Golden Mile) I will attempt to bring light where there was once darkness, understanding where only confusion existed, peace when all was disharmony.

First brother forumites what is this government consultation about?

Here you go
https://www.homeofficesurveys.homeoffic ... 48356xhlqw

Notice these points

make no changes to how religious marriages are solemnized .
This consultation is about how we best remove the ban on same-sex couples having a civil marriage.

So in summary no religious institution is being forced to hold a gay marriage.

Now those brothers in the congregation who understand basic English might think "Well what the bloody hell are all these blokes in medieval garments going on about if they wont be asked to marry the two gays in the village?

Well it is the thin end of the wedge argument. The CHurch are concerned that there may be a legal challenge via the European Court of Human Rights. If you read the Daily Mail you may have come across this on a daily basis. It is responsible for al the evil and pestilence currently afflicting this once proud bastion of Christianity, this sceptred isle. Sorry I digress.

Labour and a number of other groups are in favour of churches being able to hold gay marriages if they and their congregations so wish on the grounds that this should be down to the churches and their congregations not the government. Sounds okay to me, brothers.

Even Peter Tatchell (I have crossed myself and made the position of the cross on Blackpool beach as I speak in the hope of avoiding divine retribution for mentioning his very name) has stated "While no religious body should be forced to conduct same-sex marriages, those that want to conduct them should be free to do so."

Hope this helps. See you all in the congregation this Sunday.

[David Johnson]

"First, all that has happened is that there has been a consultation on the subject of same sex marriages in church."

My statement above is bollocks. See my post A few more points to consider for why it is bollocks.

[Jonone]

I don't hear much/any condemnation from the Church of military actions which aren't defensive.

[Gusset Sniffer]

The church of england were against the Iraq war.

Anyway mr Blair is a God fearing catholic !whistle!

[bamboo]

Hallelujah Padre. !innocent!

[Sam Slater]

[quote]I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

Gays already have their civil partnerships, which is marriage in all but name (in the same way that National Insurance is a tax in all but name).

But if - as the pro gay marriage camp argues - it's NOT the same, should straights now be entitled to enter into "civil partnerships" as well, rather than only be able to "get married"?[/quote]

Yes. I believe we should have civil partnerships for straight couples too. There is a small minority calling for just that: and are fighting for this very thing.

[quote]In any case I'd be willing to wager that far from being a major issue in their lives that they lose sleep over, most gays don't really give a fuck about it one way or the other, and that apart from you Sam (and maybe David Johnson), it's mainly just a bunch of middle-aged straight politicians like Cameron and Clegg who are obsessing about it in an effort to try and come across as all "in touch" and "right on" and pick up a few extra "pink" votes come election time. [/quote]

You're right, in part. Not many gay people are that bothered about it when it comes to themselves. They do support other gay friends who do want it, though. And in principle, it's only fair (there's that word again). And you maybe right about Cameron and Clegg's motives. They're politicians after all. Still, if it makes things fairer I'm all for it. Can't see why you're not too since you're raised no real, concrete objections.

[quote]I also can't for the life of me understand why any gays would want to get married in a church whose Bible condemns their lifestyle as unnatural, obscene and perverse in the eyes of God (or whatever it is the Bible says).[/quote]

Me neither. I'm an anti-theist and have no love for religion. Still, some gays are brought up in religious families and despite the condemnation of their lifestyle by the church still believe in Jesus Christ as their saviour. And even if they don't, my guess is that a lot will want to get married in church for the same reason many non-religious, non-believing straight couples do........it's partly sentimental, partly tradition and much more romantic than some dingy office. Some people are funny like that.

But I think you hit the nail on the head at the beginning of your post: "I don't understand what all the fuss is about." Exactly, Eric. Exactly.

[Sam Slater]

It had to be said. Everyone against the idea, so far, hasn't made a single decent point.

They just seem to be against it for being against it's sake.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]It's not for the 'for the sake of tradition' it's because Gay marriage is against the rules of the church.[/quote]

I was mainly referring to everyone in the previous thread by Jimslip on the same matter. All brought up 'tradition' as the excuse.

[quote]You can't force clergy to go against the teachings of the bible.[/quote]

Actually, we can if what they do contradicts the laws of the land. Do you think certain people should be exempt based on religion?

[quote]I don't mind personally but I don't think it's unfair.[/quote]

Great. I'm just waiting to hear your explanation as to why.

[quote]I believe the European court believes it would be wrong to force religious organisations to perform same sex marriage.[/quote]

I don't agree because you are then allowing certain people within society to be above the law. That's unjust and unfair.

In principle I believe all churches should abide by law. Of course, in reality we're not going to get private religious churches and other religious groups to marry homosexuals. But with the CofE being the official and established church, they should be brought into line along with other establishments like Parliament, hospitals, the police, armed forces and schools.