[quote]" I didn't say the members of this grooming gang were 'pissheads who fancied white girls'"
I have in no way suggested you have. You have jumped to an incorrect conclusion.[/quote]
From you said: "Sam Slater quotes selective paragraphs from the Koran written 1000 years ago about "slaves" to argue that the defendants could have used this as an excuse, whilst admitting for all he knows they could have been pissheads who fancied white girls because they were not like their sisters and more likely to do "tricks"."
I didn't say that. At all. I would like an apology.
[quote]"Annoyed you put me in the same bracket as BNP-loving Davey."
I didnt. [/quote]
Again, from you started the post with:
"In my view there is an inherent desire for many on this forum to dwell on the colour, race and religion of criminals and come up with ludicrous statements, whenever a minority group is involved. And to do that in a way they would never do for the majority i.e. white.
For example,......."
The people you refer to in your examples are:
Tolivertwist
Davey
Sam Slater
Jim Slip
That is bracketing us all under 'examples of people who dwell on colour, race and religion of criminals and come up with ludicrous statements etc etc....'.
If you have no interest in bringing our previous discussion back up for fear of reiterating ourselves then please leave me out of your arguments with others......especially with the misquoting and bracketing of individuals who's views I, 99% of the time, abhor, and the obvious implications that these actions give rise to.
Another white rapist gets convicted
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Sam
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
If this helps, Samuel
Sam,
1. You did state that despite your reference to the "slaves" quote from the Koran, you did not know if the Asians were religious or not.
2. I then interpreted that to mean that as far as you knew "they could be pissheads", "they could be paragons of virtue" etc etc. I am big enought to say that if you think that this gives people the actual impression that you said "they were pissheads" etc, I have absolutely no problem in apologising. I apologise. My language in this was slack.
3. Again, as far as I am concerned, I am not bracketing you with Davey etc. If you have assumed that, I can state that that was not my intention whatsoever. I have written so much on this topic over the last 3 or 4 days, I suspect I am being a bit sloppier than usual.
4. And finally, despite our occasional disagreements, I have always thought of you as an intellgent, articulate fellow. Well I assume you are a fella. You never know on the INterweb.
THere you go. I think that is enough apologies from me for one post.
Enjoy your evening.
1. You did state that despite your reference to the "slaves" quote from the Koran, you did not know if the Asians were religious or not.
2. I then interpreted that to mean that as far as you knew "they could be pissheads", "they could be paragons of virtue" etc etc. I am big enought to say that if you think that this gives people the actual impression that you said "they were pissheads" etc, I have absolutely no problem in apologising. I apologise. My language in this was slack.
3. Again, as far as I am concerned, I am not bracketing you with Davey etc. If you have assumed that, I can state that that was not my intention whatsoever. I have written so much on this topic over the last 3 or 4 days, I suspect I am being a bit sloppier than usual.
4. And finally, despite our occasional disagreements, I have always thought of you as an intellgent, articulate fellow. Well I assume you are a fella. You never know on the INterweb.
THere you go. I think that is enough apologies from me for one post.
Enjoy your evening.
Re: Another white rapist gets convicted
[IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/ ... ama8jm.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/ ... ama8jm.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/ ... ama8jm.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/ ... ama8jm.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/ ... ama8jm.gif[/IMG]
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Sam Slater
- Posts: 11624
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: If this helps, Samuel
Thank you, David.
I knew what you meant with the 'pissheads' remark but I thought it gave the wrong impression of me. Especially within a post -rightly- criticising certain people who, in your words, dwell on colour/race when it comes to criminals. Given that in the other thread I started off dismissing any racial motivation on the part of the grooming gang, it was especially annoying to find myself associated with -even erroneousy- a BNP sympathiser [Davey].
Apart from the religion aspect, I'm with you all the way.
I knew what you meant with the 'pissheads' remark but I thought it gave the wrong impression of me. Especially within a post -rightly- criticising certain people who, in your words, dwell on colour/race when it comes to criminals. Given that in the other thread I started off dismissing any racial motivation on the part of the grooming gang, it was especially annoying to find myself associated with -even erroneousy- a BNP sympathiser [Davey].
Apart from the religion aspect, I'm with you all the way.
[i]I used to spend a lot of time criticizing Islam on here in the noughties - but things are much better now.[/i]
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: If this helps, Samuel
Good. Glad we have that sorted, Mr Slater.
Cheers!
Cheers!
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max_tranmere
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
David...
I saw some Asian community leaders from up north saying on TV last week that the reason these Asian men do it to white girls is because the victims are outside of their community - so the men doing it can have their lives in the community and they have this sideline elsewhere - involving drink, drugs and rape, and no one in their community will know because they are doing it in another part of town and with people of another race. If the white men who do the evil things you refer to in Asia are doing it JUST because the victims are from another race then they are to be condemned in exactly the same way because they are doing the same thing. They are to be condemned anyway, regardless of what race the victims are, because what they are doing is evil - but it only becomes in the same context if the victims were singled out because of their race, just like the Asian men up north were doing it especially because the victims were white.
On the issue of the Police and the Courts tip-toeing around ethnic minorities for fear of being called racist, that does go on. The two things the Police in London came up against the black community over the most were stop-and-search in their attempt to get street crime down, and busting people for cannabis. Since the Stephen Lawrence enquiry back in the late-1990's, which was commissioned by Jack Straw and was like dropping an atomic bomb on the Police, the Police have scaled down stop-and-search (street crime in London has rocketed since) and they are always talking about de-criminalising cannabis. Brian Paddick, former Police chief and Lib Dem candidate for the Mayor of London recently, had this as a central part of his campaign. He had posters promoting his candidature saying "the Police are wasted on cannabis" (clever pun there). I do accept what you say though that there are a lot of black and Asian people in jail.
On the issue of the Police and the Courts tip-toeing around ethnic minorities for fear of being called racist, that does go on. The two things the Police in London came up against the black community over the most were stop-and-search in their attempt to get street crime down, and busting people for cannabis. Since the Stephen Lawrence enquiry back in the late-1990's, which was commissioned by Jack Straw and was like dropping an atomic bomb on the Police, the Police have scaled down stop-and-search (street crime in London has rocketed since) and they are always talking about de-criminalising cannabis. Brian Paddick, former Police chief and Lib Dem candidate for the Mayor of London recently, had this as a central part of his campaign. He had posters promoting his candidature saying "the Police are wasted on cannabis" (clever pun there). I do accept what you say though that there are a lot of black and Asian people in jail.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Max
The main point to get is that the starting point for paedophiles as with most criminals is how to get away with the crime. What you state below sounds plausible to me in terms of getting away with the crime.
"I saw some Asian community leaders from up north saying on TV last week that the reason these Asian men do it to white girls is because the victims are outside of their community - so the men doing it can have their lives in the community and they have this sideline elsewhere - involving drink, drugs and rape, and no one in their community will know because they are doing it in another part of town and with people of another race.
And it is pretty much the same with white guys who go on holidays to south east asia looking for underage girls and boys. They are away from the home community - thousands of miles away in this case. And they are able to take advantage of vulnerable children in complete anonymity.
Whether or not people are doing it JUST as you put it from another race, is not the key issue here. Generally, there is a complex series of factors in terms of targeting, I would have thought e.g. vulnerability, apart from your own community, race possibly, What is the key issue is to track them
down and deal with them irrespective of race, religion etc etc.
"On the issue of the Police and the Courts tip-toeing around ethnic minorities for fear of being called racist, that does go on. "
Of course, the Jimslip argument/nonsense is that under the Labour party, political correctness had gone berserk so the police were reluctant to do anything with regard to Asians etc and it was only when the next government got in that things changed and arrests were made. I think you realise Max, that Jim's view is total crap given the high number of Asians and people of African Caribbean ethnicity in jail.
And in the case of stop and search which you mention, the reality is the absolute opposite of what Slip argues.
Here is info about the huge number of stop and searches of black and Asian people during the Labour government.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jun/ ... rch-police
Here is the info you are referring to in terms of reducing these stop and searches in London.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/poli ... 07091.html
Brought in under a coalition government. If you are not happy about this, drop a line to Boris!!!
"I saw some Asian community leaders from up north saying on TV last week that the reason these Asian men do it to white girls is because the victims are outside of their community - so the men doing it can have their lives in the community and they have this sideline elsewhere - involving drink, drugs and rape, and no one in their community will know because they are doing it in another part of town and with people of another race.
And it is pretty much the same with white guys who go on holidays to south east asia looking for underage girls and boys. They are away from the home community - thousands of miles away in this case. And they are able to take advantage of vulnerable children in complete anonymity.
Whether or not people are doing it JUST as you put it from another race, is not the key issue here. Generally, there is a complex series of factors in terms of targeting, I would have thought e.g. vulnerability, apart from your own community, race possibly, What is the key issue is to track them
down and deal with them irrespective of race, religion etc etc.
"On the issue of the Police and the Courts tip-toeing around ethnic minorities for fear of being called racist, that does go on. "
Of course, the Jimslip argument/nonsense is that under the Labour party, political correctness had gone berserk so the police were reluctant to do anything with regard to Asians etc and it was only when the next government got in that things changed and arrests were made. I think you realise Max, that Jim's view is total crap given the high number of Asians and people of African Caribbean ethnicity in jail.
And in the case of stop and search which you mention, the reality is the absolute opposite of what Slip argues.
Here is info about the huge number of stop and searches of black and Asian people during the Labour government.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jun/ ... rch-police
Here is the info you are referring to in terms of reducing these stop and searches in London.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/poli ... 07091.html
Brought in under a coalition government. If you are not happy about this, drop a line to Boris!!!
Re: Essex Lad
David Johnson wrote:
> In my view there is an inherent desire for many on this forum
> to dwell on the colour, race and religion of criminals and come
> up with ludicrous statements, whenever a minority group is
> involved. And to do that in a way they would never do for the
> majority i.e. white.
That may be because people are always scared of that which they do not understand. If you grew up in an all-white area that then becomes home to a group of people with a different skin colour, some of whose womenfolk walk around with their faces covered and then some men from that community become involved in a sex ring and that sex ring targets only white girls not girls from their own race, you might see how they regard that behaviour to be objectionable and pick on their social/cultural/religious differences to explain that behaviour.
>
> For example, Toliverwist states
>
> there seems a problem with the ratio of Muslims, to the overall
> population, who are involved in paedophilia?"
>
> When challenged by me to give some statistical evidence
> supporting this statement, he fails completely and moves on as
> if nothing has happened.
Well, statistically, there are more Muslim paedophiles per capita simply because there are fewer Muslims in this country. So, if there are one million Muslims in this country and 500 of them are paedophiles that's roughly 0.05%. If there are 59million white people and 10,000 of them are kiddie fiddlers then that is roughly 0.02%. Figures for paedophiles are of course guestimates.
>
> Davey coming from his support for the likes of Nick Griffin and
> comments about white girls not letting down their race by
> having interracial sex, gives the impression that we are being
> swamped by Muslim paedophiles, but again no supporting
> information.
But that's the fault of the media. Apart from that poor chap whose son got murdered during the riots last summer, there are few positive stories about Muslims in the press. There are many stories about white criminals in the papers, on telly, in magazines but their colour doesn't figure because often it's not relevant unless their victims are coloured. White man raping white women isn't that interesting a story - Indian man rapes white woman is.
When all said and done, they (the Lancashire rapists) are not representative of Pakistanis and Afghanistanis but as we have seen neither country is especially in the vanguard when it comes to women's rights...
>
> So, all I have done is turned a mirror in people's faces in my
> initial post by taking the style and content of their posts,
> but sticking in white instead of Muslim. As a result I get all
> of the comments from people, that sensibly they should also be
> making to the above people about their posts on Asian
> paedophiles i.e. you say "where is your proof about "huge"
> numbers of white people buggering kids in Asia.
>
> Yet do you or the people in the quotes above, state to
> Toliverwist "where is your proof about "a problem with the
> ratio of Muslims, to the overall population, who are involved
> in paedophilia". No they dont.
>
See above for the ratios... and by the way where is your evidence that huge numbers of white men are buggering our Asian brethren?
> In my view there is an inherent desire for many on this forum
> to dwell on the colour, race and religion of criminals and come
> up with ludicrous statements, whenever a minority group is
> involved. And to do that in a way they would never do for the
> majority i.e. white.
That may be because people are always scared of that which they do not understand. If you grew up in an all-white area that then becomes home to a group of people with a different skin colour, some of whose womenfolk walk around with their faces covered and then some men from that community become involved in a sex ring and that sex ring targets only white girls not girls from their own race, you might see how they regard that behaviour to be objectionable and pick on their social/cultural/religious differences to explain that behaviour.
>
> For example, Toliverwist states
>
> there seems a problem with the ratio of Muslims, to the overall
> population, who are involved in paedophilia?"
>
> When challenged by me to give some statistical evidence
> supporting this statement, he fails completely and moves on as
> if nothing has happened.
Well, statistically, there are more Muslim paedophiles per capita simply because there are fewer Muslims in this country. So, if there are one million Muslims in this country and 500 of them are paedophiles that's roughly 0.05%. If there are 59million white people and 10,000 of them are kiddie fiddlers then that is roughly 0.02%. Figures for paedophiles are of course guestimates.
>
> Davey coming from his support for the likes of Nick Griffin and
> comments about white girls not letting down their race by
> having interracial sex, gives the impression that we are being
> swamped by Muslim paedophiles, but again no supporting
> information.
But that's the fault of the media. Apart from that poor chap whose son got murdered during the riots last summer, there are few positive stories about Muslims in the press. There are many stories about white criminals in the papers, on telly, in magazines but their colour doesn't figure because often it's not relevant unless their victims are coloured. White man raping white women isn't that interesting a story - Indian man rapes white woman is.
When all said and done, they (the Lancashire rapists) are not representative of Pakistanis and Afghanistanis but as we have seen neither country is especially in the vanguard when it comes to women's rights...
>
> So, all I have done is turned a mirror in people's faces in my
> initial post by taking the style and content of their posts,
> but sticking in white instead of Muslim. As a result I get all
> of the comments from people, that sensibly they should also be
> making to the above people about their posts on Asian
> paedophiles i.e. you say "where is your proof about "huge"
> numbers of white people buggering kids in Asia.
>
> Yet do you or the people in the quotes above, state to
> Toliverwist "where is your proof about "a problem with the
> ratio of Muslims, to the overall population, who are involved
> in paedophilia". No they dont.
>
See above for the ratios... and by the way where is your evidence that huge numbers of white men are buggering our Asian brethren?
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Essex Lad
Hiya,
"That may be because people are always scared of that which they do not understand."
To a certain extent, I agree.
"Well, statistically, there are more Muslim paedophiles per capita simply because there are fewer Muslims in this country"
Err. this doesnt make sense to me, nor do your figures support it. But anyway, it doesn't matter because as you rightly say "Figures for paedophiles are of course guestimates." All the more reason then for people not to come up with misleading stuff like
"there seems a problem with the ratio of Muslims, to the overall
> population, who are involved in paedophilia"
"But that's the fault of the media."
No it isn't. In the British media you will find a big range of attitudes towards immigrants etc. In my experience, people tend to read the newspaper that best fits in with their views. So the hang em, shoot em, EU forcing us to take straight bananas and be swamped with Rumanians etc tend to read the Daily Mail or similar papers. People taking very different views would probably read something like the Times, Guardian, Socialist Worker!!
The bottom line is that we are all sentient beings (mainly!) and we make our own choices.
"ee above for the ratios... and by the way where is your evidence that huge numbers of white men are buggering our Asian brethren?"
To repeat, the first paragraph was mainly taken from a Davey post and I just continued it in similar vein by talking of "huge" numbers of white paedophiles in Asia in a similarly inflammatory manner as Davey's original post.. I havent a clue how many white paedophiles visit Asia. I wouldn't would I, because there are as far as I know, no statistics available and if they are, they are "all guesstimates" to quote you?
CHeers
D
"That may be because people are always scared of that which they do not understand."
To a certain extent, I agree.
"Well, statistically, there are more Muslim paedophiles per capita simply because there are fewer Muslims in this country"
Err. this doesnt make sense to me, nor do your figures support it. But anyway, it doesn't matter because as you rightly say "Figures for paedophiles are of course guestimates." All the more reason then for people not to come up with misleading stuff like
"there seems a problem with the ratio of Muslims, to the overall
> population, who are involved in paedophilia"
"But that's the fault of the media."
No it isn't. In the British media you will find a big range of attitudes towards immigrants etc. In my experience, people tend to read the newspaper that best fits in with their views. So the hang em, shoot em, EU forcing us to take straight bananas and be swamped with Rumanians etc tend to read the Daily Mail or similar papers. People taking very different views would probably read something like the Times, Guardian, Socialist Worker!!
The bottom line is that we are all sentient beings (mainly!) and we make our own choices.
"ee above for the ratios... and by the way where is your evidence that huge numbers of white men are buggering our Asian brethren?"
To repeat, the first paragraph was mainly taken from a Davey post and I just continued it in similar vein by talking of "huge" numbers of white paedophiles in Asia in a similarly inflammatory manner as Davey's original post.. I havent a clue how many white paedophiles visit Asia. I wouldn't would I, because there are as far as I know, no statistics available and if they are, they are "all guesstimates" to quote you?
CHeers
D
Re: Essex Lad
David Johnson wrote:
> Hiya,
>
> "That may be because people are always scared of that which
> they do not understand."
>
> To a certain extent, I agree.
>
> "Well, statistically, there are more Muslim paedophiles per
> capita simply because there are fewer Muslims in this country"
>
> Err. this doesnt make sense to me, nor do your figures support
> it. But anyway, it doesn't matter because as you rightly say
> "Figures for paedophiles are of course guestimates." All the
> more reason then for people not to come up with misleading
> stuff like
> "there seems a problem with the ratio of Muslims, to the
> overall
> > population, who are involved in paedophilia"
Actually the figures I quoted do support my argument about a per capita figure. For example, there are more black people in prison than whites - obviously there are more whites but per capita there are more blacks. That's what I meant about the Muslim/paedophile figures. If you take the country as a whole there are more white paedophiles but as a per capita percentage the obverse is true.
As we both agree, we simply don't know how many paedophiles there are in this country or indeed any country. It's not the sort of thing that people boast about.
>
> "But that's the fault of the media."
>
> No it isn't. In the British media you will find a big range of
> attitudes towards immigrants etc. In my experience, people
> tend to read the newspaper that best fits in with their views.
> So the hang em, shoot em, EU forcing us to take straight
> bananas and be swamped with Rumanians etc tend to read the
> Daily Mail or similar papers. People taking very different
> views would probably read something like the Times, Guardian,
> Socialist Worker!!
>
Not sure James Harding woud like to be lumped in with The Guardian and Socialist Worker - very funny bedfellows.
> The bottom line is that we are all sentient beings (mainly!)
> and we make our own choices.
> Hiya,
>
> "That may be because people are always scared of that which
> they do not understand."
>
> To a certain extent, I agree.
>
> "Well, statistically, there are more Muslim paedophiles per
> capita simply because there are fewer Muslims in this country"
>
> Err. this doesnt make sense to me, nor do your figures support
> it. But anyway, it doesn't matter because as you rightly say
> "Figures for paedophiles are of course guestimates." All the
> more reason then for people not to come up with misleading
> stuff like
> "there seems a problem with the ratio of Muslims, to the
> overall
> > population, who are involved in paedophilia"
Actually the figures I quoted do support my argument about a per capita figure. For example, there are more black people in prison than whites - obviously there are more whites but per capita there are more blacks. That's what I meant about the Muslim/paedophile figures. If you take the country as a whole there are more white paedophiles but as a per capita percentage the obverse is true.
As we both agree, we simply don't know how many paedophiles there are in this country or indeed any country. It's not the sort of thing that people boast about.
>
> "But that's the fault of the media."
>
> No it isn't. In the British media you will find a big range of
> attitudes towards immigrants etc. In my experience, people
> tend to read the newspaper that best fits in with their views.
> So the hang em, shoot em, EU forcing us to take straight
> bananas and be swamped with Rumanians etc tend to read the
> Daily Mail or similar papers. People taking very different
> views would probably read something like the Times, Guardian,
> Socialist Worker!!
>
Not sure James Harding woud like to be lumped in with The Guardian and Socialist Worker - very funny bedfellows.
> The bottom line is that we are all sentient beings (mainly!)
> and we make our own choices.