Osborne's no plan B , blown out of the water

[Sam Slater]

CORRECTOMUNDO!

[jimslip]

Of course we will never know what might have happened, but the truth remains that one way or another the country's wealth has been tansferred from us into the coffers of the banks, no questions asked.

The policies of either parties are mere semantics which have little or no relevance in remedying possibly the biggest fraud in history. So Labour may have invested more, to trigger growth, but how do you know that this would have worked, no one knows. Like somone recently quipped, "I'd rather entrust our economy to the fisrt 50 names I found in the phone book than 50 "expert" economists." I'm inclined to agree, both parties really haven't got a clue what to do and don't forget Labour are shackled to the insatiable monster that is the public sector with no means of escape. What would they have done about this enormous group literally sucking the lifeblood out of the economy, the monster that Labour themselves created?

The truth is we are fucked and sooner or later the bailiffs are gonna come a knockin' and it wont matter who's guarding the door, your Labour or the Tories, the door will be kicked down all the same.

[David Johnson]

Ah Mr Slater, clearly when I say

"Where I think it would have been different is that the measures that the Tories are only just bringing back now after scrapping and/or ridiculing them 18 months ago e.g. loads of infrastructure projects that were due to happen in 1 to 2 years, "credit" easing, the youth contract etc. a Labour government would have carried on with."

.......I am guessing. However, in the run-up to the 2010 election in response to the fallout from the financial crisis, the Labour government was running a Future Jobs Fund for unemployed young people, scrapped by the Tories and their lackeys but re-announced in a very similar version last week, a small business guarantee introduced in 2009 and to be revived by Osborne on Tuesday as "credit easing" and Labour had also supported the Bank of England's quantitative easing, ridiculed by Osborne but then supported by him as of three weeks ago.

So the assumption that if Labour had won that this would have continued although not by any means cast-iron, is a reasonable assumption.

However my own assumption is pifflingly minor compared to your own crystal ball gazing into the number of deaths caused by the Habsburg, German and Ottoman Empires in the first half of the 20th Century if Britain had not fought in the 1st World War.

You are a real Gypsy Rose Lee compared to my once a year flutter on the Grand National!

CHeers
D

[David Johnson]

" So Labour may have invested more, to trigger growth, but how do you know that this would have worked, no one knows."

There are plenty of examples in economic history where this approach has worked. Considerably more than the plan to slash spending to allow the private sector to miraculously create jobs to take up the slack has been shown to work. Best to stick to those plans that at least have some kind of track record.

"What would they have done about this enormous group literally sucking the lifeblood out of the economy, the monster that Labour themselves created?"

To repeat in 2008, the deficit and debt was no higher than the vast majority of G7 countries or indeed, the UK under Thatcher. What we have in this country is a growth and consumer confidence problem. Any fool like the Tories can slash and burn.

"What would they have done about this enormous group literally sucking the lifeblood out of the economy, the monster that Labour themselves created?"

To quote the Joseph Stiglitz of Dad's Army, Corporal Jones, "Don't panic, Mr Slip."

Sleep well.

Cheers
D

[Lizard]

You mean he has crystal balls???

[Sam Slater]

Nah, you just resorted to the 'crystal ball gazing jibe because you had no rebuttal to my reasoning. As you've shown, hypothesising is completely acceptable to you if it suits your side of a debate.

Do as David says, not as David does!

[jimslip]

You are forgetting one major thing David, the UK doesn't actually manufacture anything anymore. So your ideas may well work in Germany or France where they still have factories, but I wonder where all that investment money would have ended up over here? When you talk about stimulating growth, what you forget is that as soon as people have money they spend it on foreign goods, not British goods. Do you see Germans driving British cars? Do you see the French eating British cheeses? No you don't, all stimulating growth does is enrich our foreign suppliers.

Try going to John Lewis this Christmas and say I'll only buy Brtish and see how far you get, you'll probably just about get the carrier bag in which you put all the foreign made stuff!

The great destroyer, Thatcher's "Big idea" was for us to stop making stuff and just become middlemen. the Germans and French carried on the old fashioned way and that's why they'll survive and we will stumble from disaster to crisis regardless of who is in power.

[David Johnson]

Quick summary on hypothesising for you and the impact of probability.

Your 3 year old child wants to cross the M6 in rush hour. An assumption is that the child is likely to get seriously injured. This is an assumption which may or may not turn out correct.

10s of millions of people died in the Ist World War. An assumption ala Sam Slater is that if the UK had not been involved, there would have been more people killed as a result of the German, Habsburg and Ottoman Empires. This is an assumption which may or may not have turned out correct given the differening circumstances but is huge in terms of the millions of different factors that would decide whether it turned out to be correct.

If you think that these two assumptions are equally valid and credible as the basis for discussion, then Samuel you are much more stupid than I previously thought.

Cheers
D

[David Johnson]

"You are forgetting one major thing David, the UK doesn't actually manufacture anything anymore. "

1. This is incorrect. The UK is the 5th biggest economy in the world and the 6th biggest producer of manufactured goods. Manufacturing takes up 12% of GDP.

2. Even if this statement was correct, which it isn't, stimulating growth is not only about manufacturing. Hence the coalition's rather belated announcement today, of ?20 bn spending on infrastructure projects to try and stimulate growth.

Cheers
D

[jimslip]

I suggest the UK draws up secret plans for the invasion of Europe! While the Germans are stuffing their faces with Bratwurst and the French gorging on garlic snd cheese we can quietly get on building our armaments industry in preparation! This would solve our unemployment problems overnight and would forge the population with the common goal, "Europe Under The British Trainer!" Unlike the washed out ideas of stimulation and quantative easing shit from Labour and the Tories, this idea would get UK PLC actually making stuff again! Tanks, guns, aircraft, ships, ordinanace etc

To keep the element of surprise, I propose that we dress our invading army as England supporters and plan a EUFA match in Berlin at the appropriate time. The foreigners wont blink an eyelid when 250,000 heavily armed England supporters disenbark from hundreds of amphibious landing craft and troop carriers. Tanks and APC,s and artillery can be gaily coloured in the livery of the Union flag and fuel can be lashed to the vehicles in the form of beer kegs. As long as each soldier is carrying a can of lager and singing INGALAND, INGALAND we should be able to easily sneak under their defences and I expect to be in Paris and Berlin within 24 hours, the rest of Europe will capitulate within 2 days and we can then simply steal their infrastructure!

Lets face it, this tactic worked for Adolf in the 1930's, ( well apart from the England supporters) maybe it can work now?