I wrote my dissertation at uni on the subject. The Taylor report is not the be all and end all on the topic.
Are you trying to tell me people didn't rush the turnstiles who didn't have tickets and that the caged pens weren't overflowing because there was more in them than should have been?
Hillsborough Justice Explanation Please
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oli_cortez
- Posts: 560
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Re: Hillsborough Justice Explanation Please
I think the answer to spunkie's question about why there was no problem at the Forest end on the fateful day is that Nottingham Forest fans had 60 turnstiles to enter the ground and Liverpool fans only 23.
Other people know more about this than I, but I believe the 23 turnstiles was not only inadequate but also unlawful under the safety of Sports Ground Act.
The claim by spunkie that all other matches over the years passed without incident is I believe incorrect. There had been instances of crushing in the Leppings Lane end before but without anyone being killed. Ironically that's why they put the pens in there, to try and reduce the crushing problem which was known to happen at that end.
Other people know more about this than I, but I believe the 23 turnstiles was not only inadequate but also unlawful under the safety of Sports Ground Act.
The claim by spunkie that all other matches over the years passed without incident is I believe incorrect. There had been instances of crushing in the Leppings Lane end before but without anyone being killed. Ironically that's why they put the pens in there, to try and reduce the crushing problem which was known to happen at that end.
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Spunkie
"Football grounds may have been unsafe in the seventies and eighties and mistakes may have been made by the police.... yet match after match passed passed without incident for fans of every club up and down the land for years and years,"
You are wrong. 1971 66 people die in a crush on leaving the stadium after an Old Firm game. 1986 Valley Parade, Bradford - 56 fans killed.
Cheers
D
You are wrong. 1971 66 people die in a crush on leaving the stadium after an Old Firm game. 1986 Valley Parade, Bradford - 56 fans killed.
Cheers
D
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David Johnson
- Posts: 7844
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:40 am
Oli
"I wrote my dissertation at uni on the subject"
Then I would expect that you would be aware of the following:
The Hillsborough stadium had no valid safety certificate.
The inquiry into the disaster led by Lord Chief Justice Taylor established that main cause was a failure of police crowd control.
By about 1450, pens 3 and 4 - those directly behind the goal - were full, but outside the ground thousands of fans were still waiting to get in. The pens' official combined capacity was 2,200. It was later discovered that this should have been reduced to 1,600 as crush barriers installed three years earlier did not meet official safety standards. At 1452, police ordered a large exit gate - Gate C - to be opened to alleviate the crush outside the ground. Around 2,000 fans then made their way into the ground and headed straight for a tunnel leading directly to pens 3 and 4. This influx caused severe crushing in the pens. Fans began climbing over side fences into the relatively less packed pens 1 and 5 to escape. It was later estimated that more than 3,000 supporters were admitted to the central pens - almost double the "safe" capacity.
In his interim report on 4 August 1989, Lord Justice Taylor wrote that the key element of police control at fault was the failure to close off the tunnel leading to pens 3 and 4 once Gate C had been opened. He went on to criticise police for their failure to handle the build-up of fans outside the ground properly, and their slow reaction to the unfolding disaster. Some of his strongest words were reserved for the police commander, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, for "failing to take effective control", and South Yorkshire police, who attempted to blame supporters for the crush by arriving at the ground "late and drunk".
The possibility of fans attempting to gain entry without tickets or with forgeries contributing to the disaster was also suggested. South Yorkshire Police also suggested that the late arrival of fans amounted to a conspiracy in order to gain entry without tickets. However, analysis of the electronic monitoring system, Health and Safety Executive analysis and eyewitness accounts showed that the total number of people who had already entered the Leppings Lane End was far below the capacity of the stand.
Cheers
D
Then I would expect that you would be aware of the following:
The Hillsborough stadium had no valid safety certificate.
The inquiry into the disaster led by Lord Chief Justice Taylor established that main cause was a failure of police crowd control.
By about 1450, pens 3 and 4 - those directly behind the goal - were full, but outside the ground thousands of fans were still waiting to get in. The pens' official combined capacity was 2,200. It was later discovered that this should have been reduced to 1,600 as crush barriers installed three years earlier did not meet official safety standards. At 1452, police ordered a large exit gate - Gate C - to be opened to alleviate the crush outside the ground. Around 2,000 fans then made their way into the ground and headed straight for a tunnel leading directly to pens 3 and 4. This influx caused severe crushing in the pens. Fans began climbing over side fences into the relatively less packed pens 1 and 5 to escape. It was later estimated that more than 3,000 supporters were admitted to the central pens - almost double the "safe" capacity.
In his interim report on 4 August 1989, Lord Justice Taylor wrote that the key element of police control at fault was the failure to close off the tunnel leading to pens 3 and 4 once Gate C had been opened. He went on to criticise police for their failure to handle the build-up of fans outside the ground properly, and their slow reaction to the unfolding disaster. Some of his strongest words were reserved for the police commander, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, for "failing to take effective control", and South Yorkshire police, who attempted to blame supporters for the crush by arriving at the ground "late and drunk".
The possibility of fans attempting to gain entry without tickets or with forgeries contributing to the disaster was also suggested. South Yorkshire Police also suggested that the late arrival of fans amounted to a conspiracy in order to gain entry without tickets. However, analysis of the electronic monitoring system, Health and Safety Executive analysis and eyewitness accounts showed that the total number of people who had already entered the Leppings Lane End was far below the capacity of the stand.
Cheers
D