Hillsborough Justice Explanation Please

[andy at handiwork]

The police were there to ensure the safety of everybody who attended, as with any large public gathering. Through incompetence, at best unprofessional, at worst criminal, they failed to do that. Then lied about the events of the day.

[Arginald Valleywater]

So as my original post said what do you mean by justice? I'm not thick or a Sun reader but what exactly are the campaigners after? Mrs T jailed? The Sun closed down? Do I hear Bradford fans anywhere? Even my Liverpool supporter friends and colleagues are a tad sick. Move on and let the dead have some respect.

[Grendel1]

Sorry for your friend Tony. Fortunately my cousin was upstairs, but he was dragging people up to save them, but the sight of people he was unable to save lives with him to this day, and for the rest of his life.

The authorities who were there to protect them failed, then lied about events to remove themselves from blame.

[David Johnson]

It's not that difficult to understand.

THe link below will help explain "exactly what the campaigners are after"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... -liverpool

Cheers
D

[Arginald Valleywater]

I read the Guardian stuff yesterday and it bangs on about class war between the Police and Liverpudlians making the disaster a political event....utter drivel. It also said all LFC fans are working class. Again drivel, friends of mine are hardcore LFC fans and went to college, come from professional backgrounds and wouldn't use the Guadrain for toilet paper. It was a disaster, not genocide as some people are keen to make it...

?100K each compensation and the whole lot will go quiet....

[David Johnson]

"I read the Guardian stuff yesterday and it bangs on about class war between the Police and Liverpudlians making the disaster a political event....utter drivel. It also said all LFC fans are working class. Again drivel, friends of mine are hardcore LFC fans and went to college, come from professional backgrounds and wouldn't use the Guadrain for toilet paper. It was a disaster, not genocide as some people are keen to make it..."

What you did read or not read in the article yesterday has nothing at all to do with my reply which explains why the independent Hillsborough panel was setup, why they want full disclosure of documentation and what it's objectives are.

"?100K each compensation and the whole lot will go quiet...."

You have the empathy of an amoeba.

Cheers
D

[we8derby]

i was at hillsborough in the forest end and it was a terrible day. Im sure the police must take some blame for the disaster but some liverpool fans themselves are also to blame. The fact is if thousands of liverpool fans had not turned up without tickets the initial crush outside would never had happened and the gates would not have needed to be opened. At the semi at hillsborough the season before there was a police cordon 200yds from the ground checking your tickets before you was allowed through so why this wasn't the case the season after i don't know. Its about time the people of liverpool admitted that liverpool fans caused part of the disaster instead of trying to blame other people all the time.

[David Johnson]

"Im sure the police must take some blame for the disaster "

The Hillsborough stadium had no valid safety certificate.

The inquiry into the disaster led by Lord Chief Justice Taylor established that main cause was a failure of police crowd control.

By about 1450, pens 3 and 4 - those directly behind the goal - were full, but outside the ground thousands of fans were still waiting to get in. The pens' official combined capacity was 2,200. It was later discovered that this should have been reduced to 1,600 as crush barriers installed three years earlier did not meet official safety standards. At 1452, police ordered a large exit gate - Gate C - to be opened to alleviate the crush outside the ground. Around 2,000 fans then made their way into the ground and headed straight for a tunnel leading directly to pens 3 and 4. This influx caused severe crushing in the pens. Fans began climbing over side fences into the relatively less packed pens 1 and 5 to escape. It was later estimated that more than 3,000 supporters were admitted to the central pens - almost double the "safe" capacity.

In his interim report on 4 August 1989, Lord Justice Taylor wrote that the key element of police control at fault was the failure to close off the tunnel leading to pens 3 and 4 once Gate C had been opened. He went on to criticise police for their failure to handle the build-up of fans outside the ground properly, and their slow reaction to the unfolding disaster. Some of his strongest words were reserved for the police commander, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, for "failing to take effective control", and South Yorkshire police, who attempted to blame supporters for the crush by arriving at the ground "late and drunk".

The possibility of fans attempting to gain entry without tickets or with forgeries contributing to the disaster was also suggested. South Yorkshire Police also suggested that the late arrival of fans amounted to a conspiracy in order to gain entry without tickets. However, analysis of the electronic monitoring system, Health and Safety Executive analysis and eyewitness accounts showed that the total number of people who had already entered the Leppings Lane End was far below the capacity of the stand.

Cheers
D

[David Johnson]

"I read the Guardian stuff yesterday and it bangs on about class war between the Police and Liverpudlians making the disaster a political event....utter drivel"

I read the Guardian yesterday and there is absolutely nothing in it that equates to the statement above. This is a TOTAL misrepresentation. The article you may be referring to mentions the conclusions of the Taylor report which was very, very critical of the police. The article also references the evidence that emerged subsequent to the Taylor report which found that many eye witness statements had been edited by the police.

So let's see if you can back up your statement above with any information from the Guardian

"It was a disaster, not genocide as some people are keen to make it..."

Which people? I have never come across anyone trying to describe it as genocide. Let's see if you can back up your statement above with any information.

"friends of mine are hardcore LFC fans "

No comment!

Cheers
D

[JamesW]

"The fact is if thousands of liverpool fans had not turned up without tickets the initial crush outside would never had happened and the gates would not have needed to be opened."


Sadly for we8derby, his statement that this is a fact is wrong as it actually isn't a fact at all.

The Taylor enquiry found such claims by the likes of we8derby to be unfounded and dismissed allegations that fans without tickets were a major factor in the disaster.

Direct quote from the taylor report:"...there was not a very signficant body of ticketless fans in the crowd which built up."