dale farm

[frankthring]

Simply as a British observer though overseas, I can tell you the Dale Farm
stand-off fascinates us in central Europe. This is because it involves some-
thing most czechs, slovaks and hungarians loathe - gypsies ! No PC
"travellers" here, we call a spade a spade. Just about every household has
had thefts from them or had arguments with them. Usually, and rather
unkindly, central Europeans see Romania as their ancestral home.....
So now I see on our Hungarian TV News that the baliffs and Essex police are
about to fight a "battle" with gypsies and young anarchists (flying in from
Germany and places to enjoy the "fun") at Dale Farm. Since it involves what,
in historical terms is the core of British Law - property rights - since the
Council have offered to put the dispossessed at the top of the local housing
lists, yet still they refuse to budge..... what do you think of the "travellers"
and Dale Farm ?

[Alex L]

They do seem to have trouble grasping that the trem "Travellers" should invlove at least a bit of travelling, or, if kindly offered some land to buy, on which to park their caravans, don't then go and build bricks and mortar bungalows and houses, without applying for planning consent, which is the norm.

[jimslip]

I think that you can expect a jolly good scolding and finger wagging re, your post!!tut!!tut!!tut!

Travelling or "Gypsy" folk bring colour and mystery to our otherwise dull lives. With their fortune telling skills and cheeky ways who on Earth would not wish for these people to move in next door or even perhaps onto our gardens?

All this talk, in Eastern Europe of, "Thefts" and "Arguments" is all poppycock! It is a simple matter of people mislaying their possessions and "misunderstandings". Look, our very own Vannessa Redgrave simply adores our "Travelling folk!". How dare this Daily Telegraph, (agent of Tory Britain), remark,

"For the Telegraph's Judith Woods, Vanessa Redgrave lipsticked-posturing is getting too much. "Camera, lights, action, this is Vanessa's moment," Woods writes. "She has nobly volunteered to live with her new traveller friends, to fight for them, to speak up for them, expansively, at every opportunity. But has she invited them over to camp on her own land? Strangely enough, on that very subject she has remained uncharacteristically silent."

Typical travelling folk relaxing after a hard day's work! Don't ask what's under the tarpaulin!!wink!
[img]http://wideopenmag.co.uk/images/gypsy-caravan.jpg[/img]

[mrchapel]

Someones nicked their horse

[wayne]

Whats not mentioned involing dales farm is..

1 - The recent shooting and dead body found near the site.
2 - The legal aid fraud of a very sizable amountwhen it appears some of the applicants had properties etc they hadnt declared (and yes tthe legal aid was to oppose the eviction)


and lastly funniest...

3 - There was an original spokes gypo she did all the newspaper/vox pops stuff but she sadly died in a tragic fire at her caravan at dales farm as the fire brigade couldnt to the water supply/hydrants as the gypsies had tarmacced over it all.

[David Johnson]

I suspect this ain't quite as straightforward. At least not as straightforward as you seem to think.

Frank

"This is because it involves something most czechs, slovaks and hungarians loathe - gypsies ! No PC "travellers" here, we call a spade a spade."

Yeah, I do believe some of these countries you mention (spade a spade description in brackets) don't like black fellas (nggers), jews (filthy jews) or indeed gypsies. But hey, they call a spade a spade Frank. Wonderful countries free from this political correctness crap eh?

As a historian, you may have a basic understanding of post war Romany history. As I am sure you are aware in the Second World War, many gypsies found their way into the gas chambers. In Communist central and eastern Europe, Romanies experienced assimilation schemes and restrictions of cultural freedom. The Romani language and Romani music were banned from public performance. In Czechoslovakia, where they were labeled as a ?socially degraded stratum,? Romani women were sterilized as part of a state policy to reduce their population. This policy was implemented with large financial incentives, threats of denying future social welfare payments, misinformation, and involuntary sterilization.

Right, now that we have hammered the "hate gypsies, hate Jews, hate black folks" shite , in terms of its ignorant generalisations which have led to the most horrific crimes in history, we can move on.

Alex/Frank

"Since it involves what, in historical terms is the core of British Law - property rights - since the Council have offered to put the dispossessed at the top of the local housing lists, yet still they refuse to budge..... "

"They do seem to have trouble grasping that the trem "Travellers" should invlove at least a bit of travelling, or, if kindly offered some land to buy, on which to park their caravans, don't then go and build bricks and mortar bungalows and houses, without applying for planning consent, which is the norm."

Dale Farm was started in the 1970s when Basildon District Council gave planning permission to 40 families. The disputed section is a "former scrapyard on seven acres of greenbelt land which according to a contractor at the time, Basildon council regularly brought waste tarmac and rubble from roadworks and dumped it on Dale Farm for a period of 10 years until the 1990s.

The travellers legally own the entirety of the site. They have frequently applied for planning permission for the illegal part but they have invariably been turned down.

On the subject of travelling and planning permission Local Authorities used to be legally obliged to provide sites for up to fifteen caravans at a time under the Caravan Sites Act 1968. This obligation was removed in the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. The Commission for Racial Equality says that this has led to there being too few sites to accommodate all travellers. According to the Commission for Racial Equality, more than 90% of traveller planning applications are initially rejected compared to 20% overall.

And finally, since both of you are lovers of irony, I am sure it hasnt passed you by that our esteemed government is hoping to introduce new planning laws which will replace thousands of pages of guidelines with about 50 pages in which the presumption is that planning applications will be granted. So its alright for property developers who have vast banks of land set by for 5 bedroom executive homes, but if you are a traveller (gypsy) on your bikes' pals.

Cheers
D

[frankthring]

Thanks, folks, for starting the ball rolling on this one. I was getting rather
fed up with all the conspiracy theory stuff !!
I wanted to see - still do want to read - peoples views because a variety of
opinion is what makes it all interesting to me. ..... Jim Slip who, I suspect,
is not much bothered by Dale Farm (fair enough) replies with a bit of tongue-
in-cheek hunour and a good picture....
And dear old David Johnson - bless him - jumps in with all the high moral
ground of people who frame PC laws. Save me the indignation David. I
merely related how gypsies are viewed by the vast majority of the people in
Central Europe. If that offends you I quite understand, but thats life.
I do, however, thank you David for trying to fill in the background of the local
Essex squabble since I enjoy reading all shades of opinion.
If it all turns into an ugly battle, with police getting tear-gassed, and
protestors chained to the gate being garroted, with politicians trying to make
media capital out of it all, I hope to read more......

[one eyed jack]

This song always pops in my head when I hear about Gypsies



If I hear about Pikeys I always think about "Do you like dags?" in Snatch

I dunno man I just cant help it

If they look anyhting like Cher did back in the 70's you tell em to come over to my place. They can camp out in the garden.

Not sure my neighbours or the local council will mind though

[Nob3y]

Did anybody else see the report on BBC London news?
A reporter was sent to the "travellers home town"
yes belive it or not these "travellers" have a home town in ireland.
They have houses there which they built without..guess what.... planning permission!!
They all go back for xmas for a few weeks and as one local said "treat this town with no respect" then leave again.

[Gusset Sniffer]

The sensible thing to do would be to let them stay. Charge them a fortune for retrospective planning on the understanding they pay for new roads sewers electricity schools etc. They will soon leave.

It would probably be best if they paid and stayed. There is already a legit camp on the site. Keep them all in one place. You are only moving the problem somewhere else.