Jimbo - a painful touch of reality for you

[David Johnson]

"DJ I cannot deny you are a well learned personwith a very good way of presenting your point, however please do not comment on things you DEFINITELY do not know about, there never was or has been a shoot to kill policy in Northern Ireland."

Perhaps you should read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot-to-k ... rn_Ireland

I draw your particular attention to
"Some of the victims' families have won compensation from the Ministry of Defence following cases brought to the European Court of Human Rights against the British government. The European judges considered four separate cases between 1982 and 1992 in which 14 people were killed. They involved the deaths of twelve IRA members and two civilians (one a Sinn F?in member) at the hands of the SAS, the RUC and the loyalist Ulster Defence Association, allegedly acting in collusion with the RUC.

In the judgement the court ruled that eight armed IRA men shot dead by soldiers of an undercover SAS unit at Loughgall, County Armagh, in 1987, and two IRA men killed by RUC officers, had their human rights violated. It said this had arisen because of the failure of the state authorities to conduct a proper investigation into the circumstances of the deaths. A similar finding was brought in the case of Sinn F?in member Patrick Shanaghan, who was killed by loyalist paramilitaries. The findings were brought under Article Two of the European Convention on Human Rights."

I am no supporter of the Provisional IRA, but ths doesnt look too good, does it?

Cheers
D

[David Johnson]

"Again, I must admire DJ's slavish, dare I say it, drone like, devotion to that corrupt bunch of New Labour crooks

So perhaps you could explain Jimbo, exactly what part of

"New Labour introduced a number of excessive and stupid measures on the subject of civil liberties."

and "I would like to see Blair on trial at the Hague!"

dont you understand?

!doh! !doh!

[nothingman]

No? ok i'll come back and look again when everyones unified on political issues, the 12th of never ok with you guys?;)

[RoddersUK]

You are wrong.
There was a stkp in NI. It just wasn't broadcast until a certain "Straight Copper" undertook an enquiry into certain events.
Every control room in the province had wanted lists with mugshots of arrest on sight and alongside were mugshots of the provinces most utter bastards with the order to shoot on sight. Fact of life. I was there.

[David Johnson]

Agree with every word. And John Stalker was the policeman I suspect you have in mind.

Cheers
D

[justincyder]

Rodders

I don't care if you were there or not me ol mucker so was I and I still am, you're fantasising mate, certainly there was an element who'd admit to happily shooting some of the provos and certainly maybe some squaddies scribbled shoot on site on their mugshots but there was categorically not a policy in force. The failings of some individuals do not reflect the policy in place.

And DJ please just for once stop relying on the internet to justify you're arguments. You know nothing about this nor will you ever unless you're part of it.

The SAS were/are trained in firearms differently, the infamous double tap notably but this is for tactical reasons only, the SAS are not trained to arrest people they are trained to eliminate the threat allowing them to take ground, move forward and achieve their objective. It is not a policy is a military doctrine practiced by all special forces around the world.

They were deployed as a military option as part of a doctrine that deploys special forces against insurgents to demoralise and eliminate specific threats.

The SAS in Gibraltar were briefed that the IRA ASU may have had the option to remotely detonate a bomb, thats why they were taken out.

The RUC never had a shoot to kill policy, again firearms training dictates that taking on a threat means putting in as many rounds into the target until you deem the threat is over. Let me tell you if you're faced with a gunman you don't really stop to think oo have I fired enough, you put enough in him to drop him end of the matter.

[David Johnson]

"And DJ please just for once stop relying on the internet to justify you're arguments. You know nothing about this nor will you ever unless you're part of it."

Do you not understand, how stupid this argument is?

The fact that the European Courts felt otherwise about the shoot to kill policy can be ignored because they were not part of it.

The fact that the British government paid compensation in some of the cases can be ignored because none of the ministers were part of it.

John Stalker did not know what he was talking about because he was not part of it. He just investigated the killings.

You appear to be getting totally and utterly carried away by your alleged involvement. As for Rodders, I am sure he can defend himself against the charge that he is "fantasising mate".

Cheers
D

[David Johnson]

"Difference is I hold no allegiance to any party, I simply hate the lot of 'em!

Erm didnt you make a comment something to the effect "I will probably vote Lib Dems, why not?"

Remember that now? Though understandably, you have kept a bit quiet about that of late.

Cheers
D

[RoddersUK]

Yup

[RoddersUK]

Fantasising I aint, mucker.