P.J. Proby on Michael Jackson

[Muffinman]

Until he died, no one needed to rate him against anyone else. In my case, I had no particular opinion about him at all, because his music was just not something I felt I had to own.

If I'm not ecstatic about his music, then judging his singing, dancing and songwriting skills has to be a waste of time.

Looking at your list of MJ's best songs, my first thought was that Smokey Robinson was at just such a level as a songwriter when Michael was about two. Or for sheer contrast, what about Chuck Berry? My earliest musical recollection is hearing No Particular Place To Go on the radio and dancing round the kitchen naked save for my nappy.

Notice though that I'm not one of those who disliked MJ - I have no idea about the child molestation accusations, and it wouldn't make any difference to my opinion of his talent anyway.

I'm still trying to think about something that combines singing, dancing, and songwriting and I might just have the answer - you are justifying your worship of MJ by saying he was the best at all three, in your opinion.

My suggestion is to look for something - not someone - that is the apotheosis of those three. Have you ever seen the musical Showboat? Live onstage at a West End theatre, with the Broadway cast and a full orchestra? That's my final answer.

[IdolLiesDroog2]

I appreciate your lack of mud-slinging ie, child abuse cases as it seems such an easy option for people. The reason I gave that list was to try and highlight his songwriting abilities to support my argument he was the best 'all rounder'. I am not knowledgeable in a lot of 50s music, unfortunately the appeal hasn't hit me yet at this stage in life.

It's not a case of trying to find someone of that stature, more a case of perhaps explaining the media attention on him now. Although I must say Freddie Mercury was up there in terms of voice and songwriting.

I am perhaps a little overly defensive, but I thought Proby's quote showed a surprising ignorance, but thanks for bringing it to the table

[IdolLiesDroog2]

Reggie you sound like a victim of the whole 'if its vaguely listenable it's just not real music' disillusion that exists. By 'shallow' do you mean simplif....

actually fuck it, I can't be arsed.

People need to stop comparing Prince and MJ, prince played instruments, michael was the instrument. very similar artists, but completely difference

[Muffinman]

Just to let you know that the interview with Proby was in 1997 for Mojo and it's very good. The man who said in 1966 "I am an artist - and should be exempt from shit" doesn't mince words or suffer fools.

It's here http://www.savoy.abel.co.uk/HTML/pjpeop.html

If you explore the rest of the Savoy site, you will certainly not forget the experience.

[one eyed jack]

Reggie step out of yourself for a second and read what you are typing.

Are you saying that other house hold names wrote more complex and better songs and therefore are the more better for it???? The most popular songs are those that keep it simple and are memorable because of it. The fact Jacksons old songs are played is because it has become part of the publics consciousness, even part of its cultural heritage. The mans popularity has been exploited in the world of politics. Theres no denying the impact this man had on the world of music and Ive witnessed it myself at two live shows!!!!

The fact that he was a huge success like so many before him was the ability to appeal to a mass audience. The fact the media gave him the King Of Pop title is testament in itself.

You are trying to trivialise a mans already stratospheric success of a career with demeaning comments.

You already had us when you said you didnt like the mans music but to write his career off as "shit" "end of"....Fuck man. Thats harsh but thats your opinion and we can agree to disagree.

The fact his whole life has been in entertainment means that he was no one hit wonder either. if that isnt success through talent then i dont know what is

[IdolLiesDroog2]

Very interesting read Muffinman, but I stand by my earlier comment - he seems incredibly bitter, jealous and arrogant. Especially rude about his contemporaries:


"Any Southern boy with a country voice can do Elvis," he insists.

"As far as I was concerned y'all didn't have one person in England who could sing," he maintains

"Your boys over here were doing a very bad job of trying to learn what the blues was. I'd been raised on Chess and King records, so excuse me but The Rolling Stones in 1964 didn't sound anything like black men."

>>

[IdolLiesDroog2]

Don't worry OEJ, I am sensing Reggie is a prog fan who doesn't understand why everyone doesn't agree with him. lol.

The problem with the popularity argument is as we all know...shit sells well too, but I find the implication that he didn;t try hard enough laughable. You need to seriously listen to his full catalogue to hear the range.

He would get a riff in his head, beatbox it and turn it into a track, and produced it with Quincy - so how would "not trying hard enough" come into it..as OEJ said some of the best music has been simple, the last big musical revolution courtesy of nirvana was due to the simplicity, the rawness and the stripping away the shite.

[IdolLiesDroog2]

What exactly do you mean by clever though? Complexities in the music? Pushing genre boundaries? Long winding experimental tracks?

MJ mastered several genres in his life from motown to disco to dance to pop etc, not 'clever' but this was topped by contributing to or even in the case of pop (and obv videos etc) DEFINING certain genres for the last 30 yrs. Quite clever methinks. One of the first people to combine dance and rock together and god knows what other musical stats he is accredited with

I'm not trying to change your mind because I accept you don't like it, but to say its not clever is a very strange ambiguous comment. It's true he embraced relatively short songs with catchy choruses but there's plenty of long tracks with experimentation and orchestration.

If you're not a fan you won't want to listen; but listening to the sheer change in styles from They Dont Care About Us to his earlier stuff and an overview of his career shows he constantly took risks and tried things out....I wish you'd just said too radio friendly! lol