Is belief in God idiotic?

[Sam Slater]

[quote]God could be many things to many people. Not necessarily a bearded bloke with a giant hand in the sky.[/quote]

Exactly. To me, God(s) could be fairies at the bottom of my garden, or maybe an invisible unicorn. The God people grow up worshipping just depends in where upon the planet you happened to be born, and the year. You're belief is just an accident of birth. If I'd have been born in Scandinavia 1800+ years ago, I'd believe in Thor, or maybe born in Greece 3000 years ago and worshipping Zeus.

The reason I used the word 'idiotic' was just because I knew people would bite. But, if I said I believed fairies created the Universe,, and live at the bottom of peoples gardens, you'd think I was a) on the wind-up or b) deranged. I don't think I'd get much respect for my beliefs, so why the respect for the God of Jew/Christian/Islam?

[andy at handiwork]

Speak for yourself.

[Sam Slater]

At our lowest points in life, or times of tragedy/sadness, aren't we asking help from within our own consciousness, rather than from an omnipresent, infinite, supernatural being?

[Trumpton]

Both warmonger Bush and his arse-licker Bliar believe in God.

[Sam Slater]

So they say. Politicians say lots of things to win votes. It's what politicians do.

[fudgeflaps]

In your (highly loaded!) scenario, it would be. It would also be idiotic if everyone envisaged himas the Monty Python-esque traditional stereotype of an old bloke in a beard.

Our spititual beliefs are very important; I do believe in some sort of divine overseer, and sometimes feel quite 'connected'- without any conscious thought, the right thing has just happened.

The Immaculate Conception? Difficult to answer. Was it myth, to create a following?

I am a Catholic, but a fair bit of it is puritanical shite.

Under any church roof, be it catholic, protestant or whatever- you will find all the hypocrites.

The existence of God may not have been proved- but neither has it been disproved.

[Sam Slater]

[quote]I do believe in some sort of divine overseer[/quote]

I don't. I like my privacy, and gave no one permission to watch every minute of my day, and night. Someone watching what I do, where I go, what I like -and more freakishly 'why I like what I do'-; someone who watches me when I'm happy, when I'm sad, and why; watching me argue, and knows my feelings........and my thoughts; watching me wank myself to sleep, knowing who I was thinking of at the time, and invading my intimate secrets, desires and dreams. What a fucking nightmare!

[quote]The existence of God may not have been proved- but neither has it been disproved.[/quote]

True, but does that make the likelihood of God's existence 50/50? Like invisible unicorns, or fairies, they are also unprovable, nor disprovable, so are they more likely to exist because of this? Does Zeus, or Thor have a likelier chance of existence because they are unproven either way?

You see, religions have had to answer the existence of their gods to sceptics for thousands of years, and the number of gods has lessened and lessened as time went by as man discovered more about his surroundings. With the improvements of the sciences, and what we know about our planet, life, and the universe, God has become more abstract, and harder to grasp as we've gone on. Science has made the religions do this to a point where believers -in most educated countries- are resigned to a God that just started the Universe, but doesn't interfere with our affairs...........like he/she used to. This suits religion perfectly, because they can still believe in God and the modern God's abstractness makes him/her impossible to disprove.

I just think that if I told you that I talk to fairies, or invisible unicorns....say once a week, you'd think I was an idiot........no bones about it.

I remember Snake Diamond telling me he believes in poltergeists and that he's a pagan. Inwardly -sorry SD- I laughed, as -I'm guessing- did others. He also stated that the Welsh were the first people to discover America; again, I laughed. But can anything SD believes in be disproved? Aren't his beliefs just as crazy/valid as the God lots of people believe in?

People ask for respect, and that a persons personal beliefs should be respected, but like the SD situation, isn't this supposed disrespect from atheists not disrespect at all, just a healthy scepticism that just seems disrespectful because religion has had too much respect for so long?

Isn't every parent who's child has one of those 'invisible friends', just hoping the child grows out of it's make-believe world? And yet a child that talks to God before bedtime is deemed normal. Basically, the child is respected for believing one supernatural, unprovable being over another.

Even atheists view religion through religious glasses for the most part, but as soon as you clear your mind completely, and focus on whats known about our universe, and ourselves, you'll still find room for a god because theres still much unanswered, but the problem comes with which god to choose if you want one to fill in the blanks. The answer is any god you want! One that suits you personally; like choosing a new shirt, or pair of trainers. Why? Because god is a man-made concept, and as real as invisible unicorns.



I know; I waffled on a bit there didn't I? !blush!

[harmonyluvver]

Science isn't that different to religion, we are asked to believe things that someone we don't know tells us, often with no solid, accessible or understandable evidence. Usually there is another group telling you the opposite. It has a proven track record of getting things wrong, but apparently it's ok for science to get things wrong. Science has been used to manipulate people and has caused massive harm to the world and its population.

Take dark matter ? We could have a very similar conversation as to whether a belief in dark matter is idiotic' something that cannot be seen and there is no solid evidence to support its existence. Only that things don't always act the way OUR physics say they should, so scientists came up with something they couldn't prove, to explain something they couldn't explain, not a million miles away from "filling the gaps with God". Why does the fact they use scientific terms make it more acceptable? The more we explore the universe the more we have to re-evaluate our science and accept things we previously did not believe in.

Science may well have had a hand in different religious forms disappearing but the biggest cause for that, by a long way, has been Christianity.

I still don't understand why whether there is a "God" has to rely on religion. As you have said religion is a man made concept, just as science is. If there is a God then it would have existed way before any religious concept. In some ways a belief in the religious icon "God" is idiotic, but is a belief in a higher intelligence or a more advanced life form than us idiotic ? If there is a God then I don't think it would be too bothered about having your permission to watch you lol. Being aware you exist isn't the same as scutinising every detail about you. Again though this whole "God is watching you" is a religious concept for control.

Science cannot explain consciousness and it certainly seems to be more than electrical impulses and chemicals. If there is more to it then what? Science cannot explain how when you can neither create nor destroy energy where it came from in the first place. Where did all the matter our universe is made from come from ? The concepts of infinte and nothing do either of them really exist? Is anything infinite, if not then what is at the edge of the finite, nothing? Even empty space is something. Things like that are reasons I believe there may well be more to this universe than the physical. You don't have to respect the beliefs a person holds but you sould respect the persons right to hold that belief so long as it causes no harm to others.
Thought I would join you in your waffle nothing like a bit of debate to get the grey matter firing up. Hope you are all well and had a good weekend too.