Transatlantic Flights

[Deuce Bigolo]

That would be the ones wearing the Windmill caps?

Personally I think the legislators should outlaw baggy clothing

Some call it culture I call it a way of concealing weapons

cheers
B....OZ

[Officer Dibble]

I believe a bit of finger pointing is precisely what's missing, and what?s needed to address the Chav problem. You see, in days gone by, prior to the 1960's, people were ashamed to be idiots, losers and scumbags. Society made it very clear that if you didn't adhere to certain standards of behaviour and academic attainment you were not as worthy as those that did. A large part of today?s Chav problems are caused by the explosion of single mums - non too bright teenage girls who, in the absence of a father/partner, cannot offer any kind of parental control, decent guidance, or be a worthy role model for her subsidised offspring. This sorry state of affairs has produced an underclass of illiterate, feral children. But there were very few single mums in 1950's Brittan. Why? Because it was considered a shameful thing. Fingers would be pointed, the 1950's terms for slapper and slag would be exchanged in whispered tones by Mrs Smith and Mrs Jones down at the fishmongers and they would turn their noses up and cold shoulder the hapless young Shazza or Tracy when she entered the shop. Consequently, young girls took care not to get themselves in that uncomfortable social position.

There is also the issue of social security or 'handouts'. Again it was considered a huge social shame that you were reduced to depending upon handouts and charity back then. The implications being that you were not bright enough to make your own living and pay your own way in the world. No one wanted to be seen as an incompetent looser or waster, consequently they all tried that much harder to earn a decent living or better themselves. But all the social opprobrium and scorn was taken away in the cultural revolution of the 1960?s and this has led inexorably to the rise of an illiterate, sosciopathic, baseball cap wearin' constituency of Chavs that now terrorise many of the streets in the less salubrious areas of town. The middle classes have made it OK to be a Chav though political correctness, making excuses for ?em and demanding that we bestow on them undeserved respect. Yes, the finger pointing was cruel, and I wouldn?t suggest we go back to how it was, but it did work, so maybe we can look objectively at it now and lean lessons from it.

I belive you?re misreading the social landscape with your assertion that it was the middle classes that kept Mrs T in power ? it wasn?t, it was the aspirational working classes, the plumbers and plasterers of Essex, who switched their votes to her. The middle-aged and elderly middle classes would have voted for her anyway. Also, ever since the 60?s the middle classes have been increasingly left of centre (because it?s trendy and ?right on?) they?re into the redistribution of wealth ? though unconsciously they?re just as selfish as everyone else. When I talk about the middle classes I?m talking about the labour party, I?m talking about the liberals, I?m talking about people who go to ?Uni? and white-collar public sector workers. The conservatives don?t come into it, at the moment they?re irrelevant.

?Affluence and status? Now, here?s where I bestow a little credit on the Chavs. Aspiration is a good thing; it gets us off our asses. Nothing wrong with wanting more. I?m also sure it?s the case that the middle classes want more to, but they are much more subtle (sneaky) about it ? like making sure that their little Jeremy and Victoria get into the excellent middleclass ?comprehensive? across town and not in the awful alternative Chav one where Jerry and Viki will get bullied and not learn anything because of mindless Chav scumbags disrupting lessons. And of course they?d be horrified if the council wanted to build an Asylum Seeker re-settlement centre at the bottom of their road, even though they had been chatting with other middleclass parents at the PTA about how awful ?The Daily Mail? was, always laying into those poor Asylum seekers.

Housing, jobs, education. The bar is not too high (in education it is artificially being lowered, so the Chavs won?t fell such morons). You need a goal, some challenge to rise to. The only thing is we have to teach people the proper way to rise to that challenge ? one that doesn?t involve viciously beating little 86-year-old ladies for a few quid on a Thursday morning.


Officer Dibble

[The Last Word]

Certainly we must agree that those we are dealing with should be made to look at their present situation as not something to be lazily tolerated or subject to pity - the possibility of something better ahead never did anyone any harm. But the shame you talk about as such an effective deterrent against bad behaviour or lack of self-worth in the past simply wouldn't wash today. So what would?

We could argue the toss as to who kept the Tories in power for so long all night (and I see no-one putting their hand up), what is more important is the legacy and fallout left behind. The near-systematic dismantling of much of the working class labour environment (mining, manufacturing, trade etc.) left large parts of the working classes with little or nothing to aspire to even within their own social boundaries, let alone outside of them. Here, perhaps, is where the social stigma of unemployment and the handout culture began to evaporate, as for hordes of people there was simply nothing they could do about it, it merely had to be accepted. If there was any sense of shame involved it came by comparison to those self-made well-offs and dreaded Y-words the Government held up as prize examples of what we should aspire to. What was induced was a sense of injustice, of being hard done by and run roughshod over, and it was understandable in many, many cases. It's a moot point that this has been filtered down and twisted into 'blame anyone other than yourself' mindset that blights so many now, and maybe it's this that needs to be addressed. Rightly or wrongly, blaming the political machinations of the past in which you had no say as the reason for one's present social position is one thing, lazily allowing it to dictate one's future social position is another. Induced shame needn't be involved (it could so easily induce self-pity), only hard realisation, and we're perhaps on the first step towards taking more responsibility.

As you say, there's nothing wrong with aspirations, but only as long as they're realistically attainable, and, as I've said earlier, there's no real level of working class aspiration any more. Blair's infamous 'we're all middle-class now' gambit proved he was just as fallible to unworkable visions of the future as any other politician, but he sadly doesn't seem to have twigged yet. For the most part, the Labour-endorsed idealism owning your own home, going to uni* (yourself or the kids), and a job that accommodates the accrued cost of both, is a middle-class idealism that even the middle-classes themselves are now finding hard to realise. That bar will be needed to be lowered for all of us soon.

*they're really screwing this one up big time, but that's another matter.

p.s. Day of the Chavs? Nah - it?d never work.

[Deuce Bigolo]

Again another Rose Colored Glass view

Sure standards have slipped but lets not kid ourselves that everything back then was all beer & skittles

From what I've gleamed from my Parents anyone Single & Pregnant in the fifties with child either gave it up for adoption,got married quickly or had a backyard abortion all to save face

At least kids of single mums actually have a parent unlike those abandoned to a life as Ward of the State where many were scarred for life.

Maybe another World War wouldn't be such a bad thing
given the so called Halcion days of the forties/Fifties after WW11

cheers
B....OZ

[Fastbike]

Where does this idea come from that there was a pre 1979 golden age, and then the Conservatives wifully screwed it up ? Not true , UK has been in industrial decline since 1890 ! It could have been managed better , but there are faults in this on all sides . I do not think any of the 19th century political philosphies fit the modern world, if they can screw up like this now , just wait till the oil starts runnig out and see how things go .
Thisd is seriuos stuff for OT in an Adult Actress forum ! Where did we go wrong?