Playbirds's back cover shockers

[Deuce Bigolo]

I do agree,not a symbol that screams pleasure

still theres no sitting on the fence with censorship

[muswell]

Hi Jackdore

the Nazi loops were definitely english judging by the outdoor scenes ie the "nazis" drive past Big Ben in one. Not wanting to sound too much like an anorak these were made on eastman negative color stock as proudly displayed on the covers while Marks and others of the era (inc John Lindsay) used ektachrome reversal which gives them a different look. They seem like they could have been made by people who had day jobs in the film industry rather than the gifted amateur atmosphere that I think some other loops of the period have. I think the versions sold via Playbirds etc were the short 200' versions but I know they were available in 400' versions elsewhere.

I have them in my basement somewhere but haven't watched them for a while, if I get some time over the break I will investigate further and let you know.

BTW The same company did some other more conventional loops.

[jackdore]

Hi muswell, that's of great interest, not least that the films actually exist. The English always had such a strait-laced attitude to porn, at least on the surface, yet an American distributor said his most kinkiest stuff came out of London in the late Sixties and Seventies; that's why I find the period so fascinating! I find it difficult to get a handle on how long a 200ft or 400ft film would actually last though. So it would be great if you could dig them out though they hardly sound like seasonal fayre.

[muswell]

Hi again Jackdore
Dont know if this answers your question but...

Following the 2nd world war there were three sizes (guages) of film in amateur use 8 and 16mm and 9.5mm.
9.5 was manufactured by a french company Pathe and was discontinued in 1960, although a group of enthusiasts have sourced the facilities to keep it going to this day.However little or nothing in the way of commercial porn was available in this guage in Britain.
Various companies here made films which showed naked ladies. These could be sold above the counter they would have scenes of ladies posing much as they did in the magazines of the day and no genital hair or men would be on view. These were sold openly in Photo shops and via girlie mags, photo mags and ads in Exchange and Mart etc. In the late 50's early 60's these films became a bit more ambitious and started to have a bit of plot like a striptease routine. These films would be shot on 16mm and sold in 8 and 16mm versions. The standard length being 100 foot of 16mm or reduced to 50ft of 8mm. Silent Cine projectors can run at variable speed measured in frames per second. The cinema industry standard was originally 16fps for silent and 24 fps for sound. These films could be shot at either depending on the photographer and shown at either depending on the projectionist. 50 ft of 8 or 100ft of 16mm would last approx 4 mins at silent or 2 1/2 mins at sound speed. Basically if projected at the same speed as they were shot they would be in real time. They were often shown fast or slow.
Harrison Marks' early glamour reels were often odd lengths ie 60, 75 100, 120 ft. (for 8mm) The rest of the industry labelled their films in multiples of 50 ie 50, 100, or 200ft. however they were rarely exact and the length was described as the size of the spool they were on rather than the amount of film on the spool. Therefore 200 ft spools could contain anywhere from 100 to 200 ft of film or 7mins to 13 mins silent or 5 to 10 mins sound speed (approx). 400ft spools would be twice as long.
While over the counter product would generally be short of its advertised length, Harrison Marks apart, the under the counter hardcore of the 60's and seventies was generally good measure, maybe because it would also be sold abroad and would be competing with climax rodox etc whose product was of a high technical standard and good value in that 200ft meant 200ft of film. This is probably the stuff you have heard of.
Hardcore was produced and available in Britain from at least the end of the war up through to the 80's when video killed the celluloid market. Initially under the counter but later over it. The term "loop" was a late 60's invention which came in when adult stores introduced viewing booths where you could watch a porno which was looped on the projector so that it would start again when it reached its end.My memory of these things was that for the amount of time you got for your half crown it would be cheaper to buy the film and take it home.
Hope thats of some use,

[jackdore]

Hi again muswell

Many thanks for your most detailed and interesting reply, it's cleared up quite a bit for me. This forum can certainly be educational! Hopefully more details of these and other flims of the time will come to light so they can be added to the database.

[Johnny B]

It might be worth sending an email to the people who run the official Marks website, they seem pretty knowledgeable about his 1970s activities, and could probably say if he did or didn?t make those films.

Heres a couple of Marks Ads that appeared throughout 1970, apparently he was sent to trial for sending obscene material through the post in 1971, so these Ads might have been what got him into trouble?


[IMG]http://img212.imagevenue.com/loc191/th_31120_ghmjun70ledScanned01_123_191lo.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://img105.imagevenue.com/loc1022/th_31122_ghmoct70edScanned01_123_1022lo.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://img168.imagevenue.com/loc1039/th_31123_marksbtitledScanned01_123_1039lo.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img175.imagevenue.com/loc1174/th_31293_ghmdScanned01_123_1174lo.jpg[/IMG]

[RoddersUK]

Mn, spent a few quid on these fuckin rags back in them days.
When I was in the Army I was stationed in Colchester and used to dive in the resevoir there, Mersea I think it was, but I could be wrong. I do know that Mary 'fuckin holier than all you peasants' Whitehouse used to live near the res and every time we went there diving I was always on the lookout for the cow.
If I had seen her I was determined to run the fucker over and save everyone from her sanctimoniopus views. Sadly, I missed her.

[Johnny B]

It probably doesn?t help all that much but there is a publicity picture from Come With Play Me (1977) of Harrison Marks and Alfie Bass reading a magazine with that Nazi 8mm films Ad on the back (a slightly blurry copy of the pic below). Of course this doesn?t prove that Marks made those series of films, but as Come Play With Me was filmed in the Winter of 1976, it does means they must have been shot prior to that date.
[IMG]http://img211.imagevenue.com/loc415/th_57610_IM000287928_123_415lo.JPG[/IMG]

[Johnny B]

Heres an advert for G&B Books (1976) who were the ?London Agents? of The Ultimate Film Club, who released the ?Nazi? 8mm films. The same address (130 Godwin Road, London) was also used by ?K.G Imports? and ?Subdean Publishing?. I assume all these companies were one in the same, as the three films advertised here, first appeared in an advert for Subdean Publishing in 1972, where their titles were referred to as ?Taboo: Landlords Delight?, ?Flesh: Room Service? and ?Wife Swappers (orgy)?.

Anyone recognize those company names, know who these people were, or visited their shop at 130 Godwin Road? Might offer a clue as to who made those ?Violators? films.
[IMG]http://img205.imagevenue.com/loc81/th_14122_gandbtled-Scanned-01_123_81lo.jpg[/IMG]

[jackdore]

Subdean was Sullivan's first publishing venture where he originated his notorious business techniques. It crashed in 1974 following some disastrous speculation in the property market. Godwin Road was its seedy head office which he retained for several more years. I guess the other business addresses in his mags were controlled by him also though I doubt he had anything to do with the films except advertise them.