Whose to blame for brit porn being the worst

[one eyed jack]

Oi Mr Diggler sunshine (patronising tone well meant for) don't bleat about me and Mason as if we still work together. We've been down that road on this forum quite some time ago, so drop it! Next: Who the hell are you to come round here implying that great porn is only shot in "nice" locations? I'm so sorry I don't live in a ?400, 000 house like you probably do and finally, no one in this whole wide business can tell you that I have never paid industry rates, in some cases I've paid more. If you are going to name drop (which I respect you had the balls to do) then you have to respect that I'm going to stand right back up, gloves off and defend myself.

A lot of my shoots shot at home were'nt designed to be of any artistic merit and had no pretensions to be. I prefer to see myself as one of those who first rose to prominence pre r18 before a lot of others jumped on the bandwagon when it became legal and even then I always paid the girls fairly. I challenge any one to come on here and state otherwise. The videos I shot were intended to be seen just as that: home made movies and didnt purport to be anything else. I was the first to do paid test shoots before agencies adopted this and gave most, if not all girls further work as a result. Furthermore, you state that model fees havent gone up and that this is all a travesty blah. What planet are you living on? I don't know any girl who works for less than ?300 straight or tries to charge ?700 like I'm some newbie mug punter just because they went to america and did double anal gangbangs and the like. Don't compare Britain to other countries who legally produce porn. Other countries in the world can freely trade their wares where as we are only limited to a couple of hundred sex shops who are stocked from floor to ceiling.
In case you didnt realise, producers are not earning anymore today than since this business turned legal. I could go into bbfc fees and the like but I'm sure that would only inspire cynics to play the small fiddle. I've stated to many girls who have worked for me (guys too) that I think they are worth more...Only when they deliver the goods. Who wants to pay over the odds for a substandard performance? I think you should come correct before spouting off conjectures so loosely. Hit a sore point. You sure did. I'm beginning to dislike, quite intensely, the bullshit I'm hearing by people who probably know shit all about this business...but your critiscisms are noted even if they are unconstructive.

I note the word ESCORTING in your post. Only cynics like you would think girls do porn just for the money. You obviously have no understanding why some of the girls prefer to do videos over escorting. More often, girls drift over to escorting when the work becomes thin, then it's not just about the money but just another means of keeping ones head above water. Otherwise, why do some girls who do escorting still do videos when they can make more money escorting?

I've probably gone abit overboard but like I said, you called me out on this and I'm bored stupid at hearing comparisons about British porn vs US/euro porn. Why this, why that...Do your homework and remedy it yourself if you really care. Maybe you just can't be bothered and prefer to wait in the wings instead, so that people in this industry can make great strides before you step in perhaps.

[Joe A]

Terry..

You should have ignored Mr Digglers post...

I think that he is a troll.... That was his first post and no email address...

I might as well add my point about UK Porn which will never be able to compete with the quaility of other countries unless there are major changes as to how porn is sold here.

I have a feeling that if full R18 adult is allowed on the subscription channels next year, we may well see an improvement in quality. While only soft core can be shown there is no inspiration to produce more than we do now. Once the R18 is allowed, then we will have to produce better quality films to compete with the US material that will also be available. There is of course the major problem that adult material can only be sold in the limited nimber of licensed sex shops and we can't sell adult by mail order.

Where is the money to be made from the UK market ?... At the moment nowhere... So don't blame the producers. With smaller sales than other countries we don't receive the income to produce higher quality films. I'd be interested to know what money is made by the UK producers from their films being sold in the States compared to their UK sales... Anyone got an answer...

As someone asked recently.. "How can you make a small fortune from the Uk adult biz?" .. The answer was correct... " Start off with a large fortune !"

[Officer Dibble]

"But if I shot beautiful classy girls like Claire Green having erotic sex, who'd buy it?"

Me, and maybe some of those who regularly pose questions here about Charmeine, Louise, Linda, Misty, Stacy, Teresa, etc, because at the moment they aren?t being served with viable alternatives.



"Where is the market?"

I'm afraid the market has fragmented and it may be impossible for girls to come to the fore who are seen by common consensus as delightful, delicious and ultra desirable, as happened in the day when there was no internet, 3-4 TV stations and half a dozen popular top shelf mags. The collective desires (and cash) of Britain?s geezers was focused on those few mags and the glamorous models therein. Now that things are spread so thin quality and standards have been thrown out of the window, nobody really cares, they're all apathetic, to busy scrabbling for a few measly porno quid. I mean, why aren?t producers, photographers, model agencies and the like saying to girls "Sorry luv, you don't look nothing like Silvia saint, Angelica Bella, Laure Sainclair, etc, so this is not the business for you. But thank you for enquiring"? - Two reasons. One, they don't give the slightest toss about standards and quality. Indeed it seems an alien, incompressible, concept to some. And two, they simply need the dough, any dough. Now that the porno pie has been divided into some many little pieces I guess it's understandable that some in the biz might be forced to put their principles to one side.



?Too many of the girls working in porn also have incredibly low self-esteem. They don't want to shoot anything that would make them look beautiful and unattainable and classic, becase that would be well...weird.?

They?re probably terrified that they would fall miles short of a proper glamour girl, since they don?t know about makeup, what to wear, how to act etc. Those feminine ways are not imbued into today?s young girls, indeed it's come to the state of affairs when, as you say, they think being feminine and girly is 'weird'. Being feminine, being aware of one's sexuality, is not really apart of today?s chavy pop culture. The girls probably feel that if they tried to emulate some of yesterday?s gorgeous girls and glamourpusses that they would fail miserably and look foolish for trying. So they all chav together in their dirty jeans, vest tops with their pasty, no makeup, faces and straight, no-style, lank hair. There's safety in chaviness, after all. There may be no glory in it, but at least nobody can laugh at you if you look just the same as every other plain chavy girl.

But that is a mistake. Almost every girl can transform herself, make herself much more appealing and desirable simply by utilizing good makeup, styled hair, dress sense, and having the correct attitude and demeanor.



?But I do enjoy your dissertations of modern society. I just hope to god you're not a sociologist by trade.?

Thanks dude. It?s always gratifying to hear that one?s scribblings are appreciated, and no, I?m not a professional sociologist ? just an enthusiastic amateur.


Officer Dibbs

[Officer Dibble]

"They won?t nowadays take the heavily tattooed , unglamorous chavs that fill the books of the two hardcore agencies in London. Which is just as well - as I wouldn?t want to shoot them anyway!"

Glad you mentioned the London agencies. Now, I've used them in the past and in my experience they have been helpful and efficient. But, it has long niggled me, nay, pissed me off, that 90% of their 'models' are simply chavs! They're not fucking models at all! Jeez. What are they thinking of? Why aren?t they telling these chavy sorts that they have no model looks, no body (in many instances) and zero ability in projecting sexual allure? Why aren?t they turning them away? Are they blind? Don't they care? Aarrrggghh!



Officer Dibble

[golostruda]

Eveyone's comparing British porn with American or German. I'd like to raise a flag for Swedish porn. Not the internationalist Private drivel, but proper homegrown stuff by directors like Mike Beck.

On a recent holiday in Gothenburg, I picked up Riddskolan 2 (featuring Angel-Long amongst a dozen Swedish babes) and Vikingalegenden (featuring a rare hardcore appearance from Katrina Bowers). Both were shot on high-end equipment rather than car boot sale camcorders, and featured plots, costumes, set dressing and all the other things most countries' porn directors can't be bothered with any more.

Each featured a dozen scenes. And the price of these marvels, both brand new boxed DVDs from a local sex shop? 49 kroner each. That's about four quid.

Since then I've not bought any porn from UK retailers at all. Far more sensible to go to Sweden for it. The price saving on a few films more than covers the budget air fare, and the quality is much higher than anything you can get over here. The sooner more people cotton on, the sooner UK directors will have to raise their game.

[one eyed jack]

UK directors raising their game?! I think you mean a concerted effort from grass roots up me thinks. Its too dismissive to blame just the producers/directors because one is usually symptomatic of the other.

What you failed to mention Golustruda is that in Europe they have a whole new set of problems with pirates, especially around the Benelux region and furthermore, it would be interesting to hear if Mikael Beckman is still producing. I haven't heard much from his sector since he went on a big producing spree with the titles you mentioned. Great for the customer buying brand spanking new dvds at ?4 probably equals an expensive way for a producer to go out of business. It's getting harder all round. I for one know that in Denmark, its virtually non existent since John and myself worked for Michael Zile 3-4 years ago and he relied on controversy to sell his tapes resulting in a riot outside his office when Rebecca Lee mentioned to some people she was doing a gang bang and word of mouth mis interpreted it as she was getting mass raped- All hell broke loose, it was in the paper, tv news everything but then that was his publicity machine at work but then he still didnt fare well out of it. I could cite more examples...Germany! Does anyone still buy porn there? I think you'll find the market has hit rock bottom there as well. The answer-Over saturation of product in the market place. Pure and simple...Still, one lives in hope. Keep your chins up.

[JP]

Terry

As someone from within the industry and one who has taken the time and effort to contribute to this thread (which is appreciated) how do you see the Brit industry developing, do you think for example hardcore will be available via Sky digital in say a year or two and will this make a difference.

JP

[JurkdaTurk]

I think Brit porn is alright. I think why you have so many people trying to copy Ben Dover is down to his popularity. I think that Brits find amateur, next door girls more appealing than the fake tittied beauties who a majority of porn purchasers would probably never have a chance to shag in a million years. I'm hardly likely to get it on with Michelle Thorn etc so I personally find the council estate slag look more appealing as I could imagine picking up one these dirty girls in a local club and shag her senseless. Isn't more fun to think that your next door neighbour likes to fucked in all holes and is dirty slut?

We are a reality TV culture. The closer to real life it gets the more popular it is. I think that there should be a new range called Chav Shag!
Somebody go down to Chatham, Kent and find a few chav slappers, not hard, and make a new yet amusing comedy porn range!
"Gold Hoops of passion"

[Officer Dibble]

"I think why you have so many people trying to copy Ben Dover is down to his popularity"

That's only partly true. The main reason is that many people who make fuck films in the UK today don't have the money, ambition, imagination or inclination to apply themselves to doing anything more involved.



"I think that Brits find amateur, next door girls more appealing"

Girls next door are wonderful - expect when you are live on a chav estate.



"fake tittied beauties who a majority of porn purchasers would probably never have a chance to shag in a million years."

Forget about fake titted beauties. They are a total irrelevance, a sideshow. British punters have never really taken to them (except in one or two particular instances). No, the choice is not between dreary chavs and suntanned fake titted beauties. The choice is between those two unappealing groups and ordinary, clean, intelligent, sophisticated, sweet, sensual charming girls who know how to dress, deport themselves, and use their femininity and sexuality to maximum effect. Remember those?



" could imagine picking up one these dirty girls in a local club and shag her senseless."

I endeavour to avoid that distressing vision. Unfortunately, it occasionally creeps into my nightmares - whereupon I awake with a start, sweat tricking down my brow. When it dawns on me that it was only a nightmare, and there are no chavers within five miles, I feel a sense of relief akin to an orgasm.



"Isn't more fun to think that your next door neighbour likes to fucked in all holes and is dirty slut?"

No, it's just depraved. How you been watching that Max Hardcore geezer?



"We are a reality TV culture. The closer to real life it gets the more popular it is"

Yes, it's sad to say that so many in the UK are addicted to the banal - we must look very dull, stupid, and unimaginative to our Continental cousins.



"I think that there should be a new range called Chav Shag!"

Hey, you may have hit on something there - a chav sex comedy series would be a great vehicle for poking fun at chavs and their mores. There needn't be too much sex - that would be depressing anyway - just enough to set the scene. I envisage a porn version of 'Only Fools And Horses' but instead of being street traders they would be Pro-Am filmmakers, and we could laugh at them as the go down to Dixon?s to buy their first ?100.00 camcorder. We could titter as they sign up their first star, 'Fag-Ash Lil' - the girl from the Tesco's till. And we could bubble with mirth when she doesn?t bother turning up to their first shoot ? ?cause she had forgotten that 'I'm An Idiot Get Me Out Of Here' was on the box. Yes, it has many possibilities.



Officer Dibbs